ePropulsion and Torqeedo experiences

[The great unwashed]

A couple of years ago I tried to motor my 26’ daysailer into about 25 knots of trade winds on the port bow using a Torqeedo 1003 long shaft.  Fairly flat water.  Total failure.  At full throttle I couldn’t keep the bow into the wind or make any progress to weather.  YMMV.

 

[EvaOdland]

I am planning on repowering a project boat with this:

https://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/sevcon-brushless-sailboat-kit-5kw.html

Hope to get the kit ordered in August for cooler weather work below in Sept. Will need to teardown a dead BMW D7 diesel and fab a mount with the help of some mech engineer friends.

Well....I look at the gear reduction apparatus has all the mounting stuff I need...it should fit with adjustment on the existing stringer and motor mount.

https://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/gear-reduction-for-electric-inboard-sailboat-motor.html

 

[Bull City]

I am planning on repowering a project boat with this:

 https://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/sevcon-brushless-sailboat-kit-5kw.html

Interesting. What kind of boat? What kind of batteries?

 

[allweather]

Thanks for the responses.

Seems like I will have to borrow a torquedo down at the marina when there is a strong breeze and see how things go on the water(I can sail into my protected harbor in case it is too much wind outside for the motor)
Now to see who to grab one off of... a number of early adopters returned theirs because they had a bit of an issue...
 

Short fetch shouldn't be an issue though as I intend to adapt a trolling motor with a longer carbon shaft to get around waves within reason.
The torquedo shaft length matches our current petrol outboard and even smaller waves make that more difficult. Actual swell of 1-2m it is always going to be sailing into flat water or find a better marina to enter.

 

[Bull City]

 I have some experience motoring into a strong headwind (15-20 knots), but not that often. The Torqeedo will get me through it, but seas are not very much, because of the short fetch.

A couple of years ago I tried to motor my 26’ daysailer into about 25 knots of trade winds on the port bow using a Torqeedo 1003 long shaft.  Fairly flat water.  Total failure.  At full throttle I couldn’t keep the bow into the wind or make any progress to weather.  YMMV.

I have been known to over-estimate wind speed.

 

[Laurent]

I am planning on repowering a project boat with this:

https://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/sevcon-brushless-sailboat-kit-5kw.html

Hope to get the kit ordered in August for cooler weather work below in Sept. Will need to teardown a dead BMW D7 diesel and fab a mount with the help of some mech engineer friends.

Well....I look at the gear reduction apparatus has all the mounting stuff I need...it should fit with adjustment on the existing stringer and motor mount.

https://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/gear-reduction-for-electric-inboard-sailboat-motor.html

View attachment 380186

View attachment 380187

Interesting concept.

I have always wonder if for the DIY enclined, there is an alternative to the Torqueedo and OceanVolt packages.

For instance, would something like this make sense for a small to mid-size sailboat cruiser?

https://www.electricmotorsport.com/motor-drive-systems/brushless-pmac-turn-key-systems/air-cooled/pmac-g4845-36-48v-450a-motor-drive-system.html

In more general terms, there are gazzillions of golf cart electric motors, with the associated infrastructure of spare parts, dealership, OEM replacement etc... Would such a set up make sense for a small sailboat?

DISCLAMIER: I have no affiliation whatsoever with the company above: they are just one of the first to pop up on a Google search for 48V 10 kW golf cart motor...

SECOND DISCLAIMER: I am not an electrical engineer, I know nothing about electrical motors...  For instance, the performance curve of the motor in the link above is this...

View attachment Electric Motor me1114_performance_curves.pdf

And it does not make sense to me... the scales on the Y axis would seem to say that voltage is always at about 70 V (faint dotted green curve) ... Really???

 

[EvaOdland]

Interesting. What kind of boat? What kind of batteries?

1981 Pearson  Flyer 

4-5 lead acid 100 amp/hr

Charged at slip.

The kit I am looking at uses a controller that uses pulse width modulation to govern the motor...rather than a giant resistor, and a gear reducer...so the efficiency of turning a propellor shaft at a steady draw is high making it possible to get in and out of a slip or mooring and out to the race course...I'll still have the outboard...see fix it forum for my return thread on the flyer.

 

[Bull City]

4-5 lead acid 100 amp/hr

Is that 100 amps total or per battery? 6,135 lbs. of boat. How much range do you think you'll have?

 

[trackday]

I am planning on repowering a project boat with this:

https://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/sevcon-brushless-sailboat-kit-5kw.html

Hope to get the kit ordered in August for cooler weather work below in Sept. Will need to teardown a dead BMW D7 diesel and fab a mount with the help of some mech engineer friends.

Well....I look at the gear reduction apparatus has all the mounting stuff I need...it should fit with adjustment on the existing stringer and motor mount.

https://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/gear-reduction-for-electric-inboard-sailboat-motor.html

View attachment 380186

View attachment 380187

For the marine environment, you would be wise to consider a TEWD (totally enclosed wash down) motor.  Then you must consider how to displace the heat generated by the motor.  Let's assume the motor is 93% efficient.  That would result in about 350W of heat that needs to be displaced.  However, that is probably a mute point if you only have a 100 Amp battery capacity.   Running the motor at 5kW, you would have a maximum of 20 minutes of powering if you could run the batteries to 0 (which you cannot)

 

[allweather]

I use a trolling motor on my 9.5m long 970kg boat because I need a long shaft:

Of the motors offered by australian company, which version do you have for the 48V?
Perhaps more importantly, are you sailing in salt water and can the motor cope well with this? Differently said, I am looking into using one of them(EMP100 or 120 most likely) and would like to hear an outside opinion.

The company has been great with figuring out the details over Email but another opinion is always helpful in that regard.

And how do you like the controls for the motor. The joystick or potentiometer option specifically?

 

[kent_island_sailor]

A friend of mine has had an electric boat for years. There is a company, Ray I think, that sticks 36 volt motors in what looks like old outboard motors with the powerhead removed. He lives on a lake that prohibits gasoline engines. The boat has enough range to cruise around the lake and it is a very pleasant way to get around sipping a drink. I don't think the boat goes faster than 6 knots or so, but the low end torque gives you a noticeable kick from idle.

 

[Sidecar]

Of the motors offered by australian company, which version do you have for the 48V?
Perhaps more importantly, are you sailing in salt water and can the motor cope well with this? Differently said, I am looking into using one of them(EMP100 or 120 most likely) and would like to hear an outside opinion.

The company has been great with figuring out the details over Email but another opinion is always helpful in that regard.

And how do you like the controls for the motor. The joystick or potentiometer option specifically?

I have the EMP 160 tiller model standard 1000 mm shaft. I have made my own mounting bracket.

0I only sail in salt water and the motor appears to be OK with that.

Charles and Hristos are very helpful, and they do a lot of other interesting specialist electric motor work. I see now they also do DIY motor kits and have steering wheel options, so they have established a niche market.

Tiller throttle control is basic but works OK, I never steer with the motor and don’t use the extension. The tiller is always locked off, but I switch directions and lock again, rather than use reverse for any length of time.

The “in water” parts of the motor are all pretty robust cast aluminium, the shaft is stainless steel and is robust, the tiller and head controls are plastic and could do with being  more robust. I have to take the head off to install it in the boat, the shaft going up through the cockpit floor. So the motor is effectively permanently installed.

The motor comes with a spare propellor, not that I have needed it so far, because the rudders touch bottom before the prop. But I am thinking about putting on a thrust Torquedo prop.

All that said, my unit is on a custom mount, I use the motor thrusting sideways on the shaft holding bracket, not as designed, and am pretty rough with things anyhow.

Hope this helps, If you need to discuss things more, please PM me.

 

[allweather]

That covers everything I believe, thank you.

It is good to hear that the equipment can handle the ocean well enough. I should have it even easier seeing how the baltic is even less salty.
Discussed things with Hristos and will mount one of those custom ones to shave off some more weight in the bracket and shaft.

Going to build them specifically to fit my boat with carbon and "steering" via rope instead of the more elegant but expensive and heavier hydraulics.
 

But use the remote control as climbing aft on the pitching deck while possible is no fun when single handed. Much simpler if I only need to leave the cockpit for the jib and dropping the motor into the water initially.

 

[Sweare Deep]

We're on our third season with an ePropulsion Spirit 1.0 -- it's been absolutely flawless so far. Way prefer it to a small outboard with a carburetor getting clogged up owing to ethanol in the fuel. Storage is another plus, as it can just get dumped in a cockpit locker in any orientation.

That said, if we were instead cruising in the Caribbean where longer dinghy rides to good snorkeling spots are more typical than the short runs ashore we do here in the northeast, I could see the advantages of a gasoline powered outboard, especially given that they don't contaminate their gasoline with ethanol.

 

[green03]

By eventually, I mean I do not yet have solar, and I have a folding prop so regeneration is impossible. Need a feathering, not folding, prop to regenerate, and I'll get one soon. Solar, I am waiting for this silly trade war to end.

Just came across a boat video where they showed regeneration with a folding prop. Apparently, they run the motor first, to spin up the prop and afterwards it's held open by centrifugal force. Something like that, but it's definitely possible.

 

[carcrash]

Just came across a boat video where they showed regeneration with a folding prop. Apparently, they run the motor first, to spin up the prop and afterwards it's held open by centrifugal force. Something like that, but it's definitely possible.

I've tried many times. We all experience times when props don't fold in neutral. As soon as I try to pull energy from the prop, it immediately and always folds, at 4 knots, at 6 knots, even at 8 knots. Never works.

 

[green03]

I've tried many times. We all experience times when props don't fold in neutral. As soon as I try to pull energy from the prop, it immediately and always folds, at 4 knots, at 6 knots, even at 8 knots. Never works.

Well, they were definitely showing a folding prop. Their description of the process sounded like they were not taking energy off the prop, but that it starts to spin faster than the motor drives it, thus reversing the flow of power starting at a bit over 5 knots. However, it's not something I know from personal experience; are there differences among folding props that may explain their success?

 

[Bull City]

I wonder if you need a variable pitch prop.

 

[quecatsofai]

We have a 20 hp Torquedo  OB.  It has a plastic prop.... it is terrible... have replaced it numerous times... breaks if we think about something in the water.

Now having issues with motor itself...   get an Elco or an outdrive one

 

[carcrash]

Many companies selling folding props claim their props work for regeneration. My Martec Elliptical certainly has never worked for me. It will stay open and spin like crazy, but the moment I start to try and pull any energy out of that spin, it folds. Instantly. Like putting a transmission in reverse.

Hence, I think I need a feathering prop, like a Max prop. Or an Autoprop (constantly automatic adjustable pitch). The Autoprops are about a half or third the drag of a fixed prop, while the feathering props are close to zero drag. Hence my preference for the feathering prop. I don't think I'll need to regenerate much.