"Equity".....The dumbing down of 'Murica

[roundthebuoys]

My guess is that you have exceptionally bright kids.  I would do the same for kids like that.  I don't think that is generally the approach though.

Thank you.  Bright for a relatively small Idaho high school, , albeit in a high end area and our kids coming from California.  Seems to be working out quite well.

 

[roundthebuoys]

What do you do about that?

FKT

Sports

 

[Fah Kiew Tu]

Sports

Fuck sports, I never ever saw a team sport that was worth the bother of playing. Watching is even more painful.

At university I did fencing with foil and epee and went SCUBA diving & spearfishing.

Some of us have absolutely zero interest in organised team sports.

FKT

 

[130lights]

Homemade, one word Einstein.  Also, please look up ellipsis (ellipses), because you are fucking those up too.    

 

[roundthebuoys]

Fuck sports, I never ever saw a team sport that was worth the bother of playing. Watching is even more painful.

At university I did fencing with foil and epee and went SCUBA diving & spearfishing.

Some of us have absolutely zero interest in organised team sports.

FKT

Then you accept the kids not being around other people.  I've watched the most boring games ever but they engage each other, make friends and eliminate idle hands.  It doesn't matter if they win or lose.  I Scuba dive too, what does that have to do with anything?

 

[Fah Kiew Tu]

Then you accept the kids not being around other people.  I've watched the most boring games ever but they engage each other, make friends and eliminate idle hands.  It doesn't matter if they win or lose.  I Scuba dive too, what does that have to do with anything?

Just that I'm not totally against sports, I simply have no interest in organised ones.

Though you could argue that fencing was organised in that it had rules, but it wasn't a team sport. And the reason I preferred epee to foil was because there were less rules...

Anyway your argument reduces to, fit in or get bullied.

Which was my point, so it's interesting that you think this is reasonable.

FKT

 

[roundthebuoys]

Just that I'm not totally against sports, I simply have no interest in organised ones.

Though you could argue that fencing was organised in that it had rules, but it wasn't a team sport. And the reason I preferred epee to foil was because there were less rules...

Anyway your argument reduces to, fit in or get bullied.

Which was my point, so it's interesting that you think this is reasonable.

FKT

It's not "fit in", it's find your tribe and your tribe will protect.  Whatever it is.

 

[Fah Kiew Tu]

It's not "fit in", it's find your tribe and your tribe will protect.  Whatever it is.

Now explain to me just *why* someone needs to find their tribe so as to gain its protection. You've implicitly given a pass to persecuting anyone who isn't a member of a group that can provide mutual protection.

FKT

 

[roundthebuoys]

Now explain to me just *why* someone needs to find their tribe so as to gain its protection. You've implicitly given a pass to persecuting anyone who isn't a member of a group that can provide mutual protection.

FKT

Jesus Christ, kids are the Lord of the Flies sometimes.  And in real life, unless you are a farmer or hermit, having social skills is important.

 

[Fah Kiew Tu]

Jesus Christ, kids are the Lord of the Flies sometimes.  And in real life, unless you are a farmer or hermit, having social skills is important.

Which is why I spent a lot of time at my local library and learned to fence for sport... and had a bunch of friends from other places.

You're conflating 'social skills' with team sports which I think is bullshit on 2 fronts. First, you can have plenty of social skills without participating in or following team sports, and second, there are endless examples of members of sports teams who are abusive.

Agree about the 'Lord of the Flies' bit. I found a solution to that in time.

FKT

 

[roundthebuoys]

Which is why I spent a lot of time at my local library and learned to fence for sport... and had a bunch of friends from other places.

You're conflating 'social skills' with team sports which I think is bullshit on 2 fronts. First, you can have plenty of social skills without participating in or following team sports, and second, there are endless examples of members of sports teams who are abusive.

Agree about the 'Lord of the Flies' bit. I found a solution to that in time.

FKT

Fencing is a sport

 

[Fah Kiew Tu]

Fencing is a sport

I already stipulated that. What I said was, it isn't a *team* sport. Is that your only response?

I'm done with this. You seem to have the attitude that unless you're a member of a group you're fair game and if you're a sports team member you get special rights to make others miserable if they can't defend themselves.

That really is 'Lord of the Flies' stuff and you implicitly accept it rather than saying it should be suppressed as fast as possible.

Rain Man has nothing to say on the subject of bright kids in a mixed class getting bullied.

Pretty pointless commenting further.

FKT

 

[Not My Real Name]

My kids college doesn’t accept High School AP classes for credit. If that was common, there’d be a lot less demand for those classes in HS.

That hasn't been way for a long time, it depends on the school. I had AP 5s going into college back in 1984, but I got no credit for it. But I did get some prerequisites waived, so I didn't have to take things like introductory calculus, introductory college level biology, or any English/writing stuff. But it didn't help me graduate any quicker, and it didn't even count towards meeting my major requirements.

It did get me to cooler courses quickly, so I could take 4 or 5 other courses instead of low level introductory courses. But I still needed the same number of tuition and course credits taken at school to graduate.

 

[Ease the sheet.]

You had criminal year 12 students in the early 1970's?

White collar criminals I assume?

(most kids that could make year 12 (or HSC) were too busy studying while looking after younger sibs, cooking dinner for working parents etc to get into serious mischief)

The "troubled" ones had already been weeded out end of year 10, even in state high schools

No.....

 

[roundthebuoys]

I already stipulated that. What I said was, it isn't a *team* sport. Is that your only response?

I'm done with this. You seem to have the attitude that unless you're a member of a group you're fair game and if you're a sports team member you get special rights to make others miserable if they can't defend themselves.

That really is 'Lord of the Flies' stuff and you implicitly accept it rather than saying it should be suppressed as fast as possible.

Rain Man has nothing to say on the subject of bright kids in a mixed class getting bullied.

Pretty pointless commenting further.

FKT

You seem "grumpy"  Fuck off, it was a civil conversation until you became you again.

 

[Burning Man]

What you claim might have some validity *if* the class' fellow students actually recognised and supported the bright kids. And the teacher actually gave extra, challenging work to those kids.

In my personal experience, neither actually happens. The bright kid gets bullied and stops trying. The bright kid can coast and as life is easier all round, does so. And then gets very, very bored.

I got through high school on memory and assiduous use of the local (not school) library where I found other kids from different schools with the same interests and issues. With 2 exceptions, the teachers and actual class attendance were a waste of my time. English was a classic example; I'd read Bleak House in less than a week and it was the assigned book for the entire term. The teacher suggested I read my way through the rest of Dickens and then start on Victor Hugo.

So I support streaming and so did my wife, who was Dux of her school. Our kids *didn't* go to State run schools because we had no faith that the teaching philosophy would do them any good. 2 of them now are employed by universities and the eldest used to be until he went into private IT.

If you think teaching to the median or lower is a good thing and retaining bright kids in the class rather than allowing them freedom to push their curiosity with their intellectual peers is a good thing, I disagree with you.

FKT

Yup.

It should not be the burden of the bright kids to carry the slugs along.  That's the teacher's and the parent's jobs.  

 

[ShortForBob]

No.....

You're too young to recall the days of the Technical Collage and streaming. Et in Arcadia Ego.

I went the Cheltenham High. A normal High School in a normal "upper" working class area.

The Skinheads, Thugs and their hangers on were all gone by year 10 either off to some unskilled job, unemployment, Turana or the girls equivalent or of to lean a trade. . That's why achieving the Leaving Certificate was so important.

Those that achieved HSC AKA six formers circa 1977? Most went on to Uni as it had just been made equitable. Thanks Gough.

 

[ShortForBob]

You seem "grumpy"  Fuck off, it was a civil conversation until you became you again.

You're learning.

 

[Ease the sheet.]

Yup.

It should not be the burden of the bright kids to carry the slugs along.  That's the teacher's and the parent's jobs.  

Except when part of the school program is that the smart kids teach the dumb kids.

The value for the smarter kids is it teaches them how silly mistakes get made and the importance of checking.

Teaching is complicated. So much more than when we went to school.

 

[ShortForBob]

Yup.

It should not be the burden of the bright kids to carry the slugs along.  That's the teacher's and the parent's jobs.  

sigh, like everywhere it depends on the kids and the School.

No one is sugesting that you team Garry the Geek up with Slasher Morgan. 

But it's pretty well established even in late primary school that you pair the more able with the less able.

It actually is of huge benefit for the geeks to adopt a mentor/teaching role. Good for their social skills and their accademic skills. Learning how to communicate and share knowledge is a life skill that many of the brightest fail at abysmally.

The kid who may be struggling also benefits from lack of embarrassment and hiding in the back and their self esteem and learning improves.

I understand that the concept of sharing knowledge and helping the kid who may then beat you in the great race is frightening for you and your aspirations for your children.

We wouldn't want to level that playing field would we?