ETAP 21i?

[Piginwater]

I currently have two boats, a Merit 22 and an Ericson 27, both needing some updating. I saw this ETAP 21i for sale and am curious about it. I've been googling and don't see that much info on forums for how they sail.

It's a 2006, much newer than my other boats, and seems in good shape, and comes with a trailer. I'm thinking of selling the other two if I got something like this.

What's the build quality? How do they sail? What sort of weather will they handle? I'm not going to cross any oceans obviously, but how tender are they?

Does anyone know the headroom below?

Thanks for any input.

 

[LeoV]

What's the build quality? How do they sail? What sort of weather will they handle? I'm not going to cross any oceans obviously, but how tender are they?

Build well, unsinkable too.
Sails well, not unforgiving but trimming has influence.
Build for Northern Europe, handles well and better then you would expect off a small boat.
Not to tender, but still a small boat.
It has sold well here, and almost every owner happy with them. It make you smile.

Etap 21 Yacht Review

Issue: December 2003The Etap 21 shown here is Peter’s seventh yacht. He and Lucy loved their Cavalier 37, but in the two months they have owned their Etap 21 they used it more often than they used the Cavalier in the last two years of owning the boat. Peter and Lucy are not ordinary sailors...

www.yachtandboat.com

 

[Piginwater]

Build well, unsinkable too.
Sails well, not unforgiving but trimming has influence.
Build for Northern Europe, handles well and better then you would expect off a small boat.
Not to tender, but still a small boat.
It has sold well here, and almost every owner happy with them. It make you smile.

Etap 21 Yacht Review

Issue: December 2003The Etap 21 shown here is Peter’s seventh yacht. He and Lucy loved their Cavalier 37, but in the two months they have owned their Etap 21 they used it more often than they used the Cavalier in the last two years of owning the boat. Peter and Lucy are not ordinary sailors...

www.yachtandboat.com

Thanks Leo, very helpful.

I'm confused about the "tandem keel" aspect. How does that work? It seems like the forward keel would cause turbulence for the aft keel.

 

[bluelaser2]

Very similar in almost all aspects to the Beneteau First 210/211 series

 

[Jethrow]

Build well, unsinkable too.

So was this one...

 

[AnIdiot]

So was this one...
View attachment 536795

They didn't test that one did they?

https://www.yachtingmonthly.com/gear/trying-to-sink-an-unsinkable-boat-31338

 

[LeoV]

I'm confused about the "tandem keel" aspect. How does that work? It seems like the forward keel would cause turbulence for the aft keel.

It was an experiment that had no downsides a non racer would notice, but shallower draft.
But as sailors are conservative.... In short, do not fret about it.

Build quality above Beneteau First 210 etc.

 

[Se7en]

Sailed on a 37s for a while. The foam in the hull makes for a noticibly stiff hull, and provides good insulation. Finish and fit out seemed to be a higher quality than the AWB. Sailed nicely, but the whole range seems to have a lower SA/D than racier models. Fill the performance cruiser niche well.

Modifications are a bit harder than normal due to the foam - it's not as easy as bond in a backing plate and drill a hole.

Oh - I also got to try the tandem keel version for a short sail. I don't think it pointed quite as high, but other than that I couldn't tell. But an old main would make more difference than the keel did I suspect.

 

[LeoV]

A Dutch magazine did a test way back, this keel against the normal one, no real difference in numbers, but in feel. Says enough.

 

[Steam Flyer]

They didn't test that one did they?

https://www.yachtingmonthly.com/gear/trying-to-sink-an-unsinkable-boat-31338

Yes, they did, but something went wrong with the procedure.

 

[billy backstay]

A Dutch magazine did a test way back, this keel against the normal one, no real difference in numbers, but in feel. Says enough.

Probably feels more like a full keel, when turning; compared to a spin keel, fade rudder!
.

 

[floater]

Modifications are a bit harder than normal due to the foam - it's not as easy as bond in a backing plate and drill a hole.

yes. this part is weird. both the OP's merit and Ericson will be typical 'single skinned' boats. but the Etap has an inner liner (and yes, foam is squeezed between the two). which means: deck leaks are nearly impossible to trace because you can't get to the deck hardware directly. Its behind the liner. much of the deck hardware is screwed into aluminum plates bonded to the underside of the deck.

I used to hate this (I've got an '86 30). but now I don't so much - because although the deck may leak, most of the stuff in the boat stays dry (like anything in the quarter berth guaranteed to remain bone dry, unlike almost any other CA boat. condensation reduced too).

other problems with the Etap: the spar is probably Selden - which is nice. I've got a beautiful stick. but the deck 'cleats' are bespoke cast aluminum fittings and tubes which are completely alien to the North American market. Same with the deck non-skid. Its proprietary German stuff that American boats just don't have. you can still buy it though - which is quite cool - google Bubel in Germany.

PS: as for the 'unsinkability' of the Etap. somewhere on youtube they open up a through-hull. and keep sailing across the English channel.

 

[lakeneuch]

I did sail a 28i for some time, don't know how much og it applies to the 21. Nice boat, the advantages have been highlighted. The disadvantages are that this is clearly a belgian north sea inspired design. So the boat went really well in winds where we were the only boat willing to sail, and was not shining in anything below 15 knots. So if you are in a low wind area you might have provlems (but as said before, the 21 footer might be different).

 

[Piginwater]

Thanks for all the input.

It's about 3 hours away, but I think I'm headed up to look at it tomorrow. It mostly depends on if he'll let me do a quick shakedown seatrial on it. He'd rather I look it over on the dock and not take it out.

So far the only thing that's standing out is that one of the portlights has been taped and needs rebedding. How big of a deal is that on this foam cored hull? I'm not sure if it's been leaking inside, but usually they leak for a while before people notice them. Could it have delammed the core?

Going by the picture, it looks like it's just held on by whatever sealant they bedded it with. Is it as simple as cutting out all the sealant, then rebedding it?

 

[LeoV]

That area is not foam cored. At least the owner did not remove the tape.

From that one photo;
-replace clutches
-replace camcleat
-replace porthole

Make a whole list with prices to bring it up to date and total it up. Maybe a new/newer boat is cheaper Or use this to get the price down.
My brother bought a few boats, and I went along only listing replacement needs and costs. No talking to seller, just listing stuff and pricing them up. Most owners selling a boat never do that and ignore reality

Important, if you go downstairs it should be dry and never smell moist.

 

[Se7en]

So far the only thing that's standing out is that one of the portlights has been taped and needs rebedding. How big of a deal is that on this foam cored hull? I'm not sure if it's been leaking inside, but usually they leak for a while before people notice them. Could it have delammed the core?

Going by the picture, it looks like it's just held on by whatever sealant they bedded it with. Is it as simple as cutting out all the sealant, then rebedding it?

Rebeddding the portlight should be that simple.
The foam seemed to be pretty impervious to water, I wouldn't be too concerned. On the 37s it was left unsealed around where ports and ventilation etc were.

It can be harder to find leaks because the water can be hidden between the two hulls. Water tends to appear in odd places, and it will drive you nuts trying to work out where it is getting in. We had one leak that made the battery compartment sigh like an old dog as the boat rolled. Ended up being water creating an air lock in a corregated conduit... but took months to find.

 

[floater]

corregated conduit

yeah that's an unusual thing about this boat. its been plumbed for heating in all compartments via corrugated air ducts. kind of nice really. even though I don't have a heater attached - it does enable airflow through much of the interior.

plus something else I got with the boat: a set of built-in shot glasses on the bulk-head. I've been told it's for a Belgian malt. so yeah. that's something else to look for. genuine Etap glassware.. lol.

 

[Sail4beer]

There’s a 28? on our River and a 37 down bay bought from the Annapolis boat show back in the day. Both sail well, are interesting looking and are foam filled. Looks like the one you’re looking at is just like them, only smaller. Probably a good ride!

 

[12 metre]

If sailing performance means anything, I think you will find the twin rudder Etap a bit sluggish in the light airs of PNW

There is a Martin 244 for sale in Seattle as well for only a few bucks more. Not as well built, and probably more of a spartan interior but similar in size and looks - and much better performing. Square top main and rates 117 PHRF, which I don't think they can sail to probably more in the 130 range:

2009 Martin 244 sailboat - boats - by owner - marine sale

The Martin 244 is a performance upgrade over the popular Martin 242. This boat is fast and responsive and a joy to sail! Deep bulb keel. 5‘6“ draft. Equipment: Near new 6 hp Yamaha outboard, full...

seattle.craigslist.org

 

[floater]

That area is not foam cored. At least the owner did not remove the tape.

From that one photo;
-replace clutches
-replace camcleat
-replace porthole

as you know, Etap deck hardware is typically not through-bolted, but instead machine screwed into threaded aluminum plates bonded to the underside of the deck. so "replacing clutches" not necessarily a trivial job. If you can manage to back out all the existing screws, can you find new clutches with the same pattern? doubtful.

if you can't back out the s.s. screws (and yes, this applies to almost everything else on deck too - handrails, winches, organizers, jib tracks etc) then two choices: carefully drill and tap new holes the plates. or drill through the plates - and the inner liner - and through-bolt the new hardware (what I did for new handrails).

my rope clutches are older (maybe) but they work fine. Because Etap are 'double-hulled' boats - you don't see any hardware on the inside. instead its a smooth liner overhead. but yes. there doesn't seem to be any foam between these two hulls - at least in the overhead - so through-bolting should be possible but will not match the original construction.