EV car thread?

[Foreverslow]

several weeks ago, I posted YouTube video of Hoovey destroying the claims of range towing and in cold on the ford f150 Lightening. Others have done the same on YouTube.

The world is quickly seeing the same limitations.
Saw an article showing over 1000 new Ford lightnings for sale on dealer lots.
The issue is there should be zero as Ford has split the company into 2 sections.
The electrics are not allowed to be ordered by dealers. Only by customers.

So there did these 1000 trucks come from?
Folks who ordered them and then cancelled.
The dealers keep the deposit and think they can resell to someone else currently in the wait queue for their Lightning build only to find out they want to cancel too.
This does not bode well for Ford, especially when they only sold 16,000 Lightnings last year. For comparison, that is 2 weeks of production of wranglers in Toledo. The 200,000 orders Ford spoke of last year is toast.

Of more importance.

Peter Zeihan is considered one of the most influential strategists in the US.
Here he explains why moving to all EV in 2030 is virtually impossible to do due to resource constraints (aka Reality strikes).



Not saying we will get there. But the aggressive dates are pure fantasy.
Also some good information on future power sources.

 

[tommays]

several weeks ago, I posted YouTube video of Hoovey destroying the claims of range towing and in cold on the ford f150 Lightening. Others have done the same on YouTube.

The world is quickly seeing the same limitations.
Saw an article showing over 1000 new Ford lightnings for sale on dealer lots.
The issue is there should be zero as Ford has split the company into 2 sections.
The electrics are not allowed to be ordered by dealers. Only by customers.

So there did these 1000 trucks come from?
Folks who ordered them and then cancelled.
The dealers keep the deposit and think they can resell to someone else currently in the wait queue for their Lightning build only to find out they want to cancel too.
This does not bode well for Ford, especially when they only sold 16,000 Lightnings last year. For comparison, that is 2 weeks of production of wranglers in Toledo. The 200,000 orders Ford spoke of last year is toast.

Of more importance.

Peter Zeihan is considered one of the most influential strategists in the US.
Here he explains why moving to all EV in 2030 is virtually impossible to do due to resource constraints (aka Reality strikes).



Not saying we will get there. But the aggressive dates are pure fantasy.
Also some good information on future power sources.

Ford has shut down F150 production because of Qc issues and is having a standoff with the battery vendor about inspecting proprietary areas of production after a fresh unit burst into flames

The whole issue of energy consumption to maintain the battery at a fully operational level in cold weather is quite the consumption albatross

Public Charging other than Tesla is getting quite the trashing because they our failing so much

 

[Foreverslow]

Ford has shut down F150 production because of Qc issues and is having a standoff with the battery vendor about inspecting proprietary areas of production after a fresh unit burst into flames

The whole issue of energy consumption to maintain the battery at a fully operational level in cold weather is quite the consumption albatross

Public Charging other than Tesla is getting quite the trashing because they our failing so much

the majority of f150 issues are on ICE units. The eco boost 4 and 6 both have MAJOR issues with the heads, turbos, and head gaskets that cannot take the pressures (these motors are wound up for all that crazy power). They let go slowly putting water into the sump thereby wiping the bearings with a fix of a complete motor replacement at 20k a shot, and without ever sending out a warning message (think of your boat diesel where you have not replaced the shaft seals on your raw water pump and it starts filling the oil sump with sea water). CEO Farley already fired the QC vp along with several other vps.

They have issues getting batteries for the estang and lightning. Again, if all was rosy folks who are being quoted months to their lightning built would jump on these cancellations. That is not happening. May have to do with the base price going from 40 to 60K with 2023s and the fact car loans are now at 9-10 percent at most banks. Not worth the hassle with an economy in decline and/or banks balking at lending such amounts on a non-commercial vehicle.

Last fall a $40k 2022 lightning at 2.5 percent at 60 months is 708 a month
Today a $60k 2023 lightning at 9 percent at 60 months is 1244 a month
Lot more money for Joe Sixpack.


73% of autos purchased are financed in US.
Just heard today Goldman Sachs is in SERIOUS trouble due to jumping into consumer loans in the past couple years. Lost 3.7 billion last year, most in q4. Could not happen to a better group of lowlifes, but with them, JP Morgan and others cutting back on consumer loans, Ally and the other major automotive lenders in serious financial trouble (heard of one who is putting 53x more money aside for loan losses this quarter), it is going to get a lot harder to get a loan on these very expensive pickups.

Major headwind for EV purchases.

your point on charging stations is very valid.
In some cases in the western US, the charge stations are further apart than range of the truck pulling a trailer. You cannot get to the next charger. That has to be fixed for the technology to be viable.


Ok, back to the EV discussion.

 

[Quickstep192]

I recently made a trip from Annapolis to Asheville. It seemed like it could have been the perfect trip for an EV because I stopped halfway in each direction. We stopped and stayed over at a hotel on the way to Asheville and we stopped halfway for lunch on the way back. Neither the restaurant nor the hotel had chargers. This seems like a big barrier.

On another trip from Annapolis to Connecticut, it seemed that almost every rest station had chargers, but who wants to hang out at a rest stop for the better part of an hour?

 

[Priscilla]

I recently made a trip from Annapolis to Asheville. It seemed like it could have been the perfect trip for an EV because I stopped halfway in each direction. We stopped and stayed over at a hotel on the way to Asheville and we stopped halfway for lunch on the way back. Neither the restaurant nor the hotel had chargers. This seems like a big barrier.

On another trip from Annapolis to Connecticut, it seemed that almost every rest station had chargers, but who wants to hang out at a rest stop for the better part of an hour?

Take the charging lead with you throw it out the hotel window.

 

[Olsonist]

... but who wants to hang out at a rest stop for the better part of an hour?

For long road trips, I like being forced to take a break every three hours or so. My issue isn't the hour, it's what's available at the Supercharger during that hour.

I ran across a new Supercharger in Harrisburg, OR on I5. It's a Supercharger. It's built at an old service station that's been converted into a wine tasting room with a comfy wifi lounge where the service bays would have been. There's a decent food truck where the gas pumps would have been.

I dropped maybe $30. They were happy. I was happy.

 

[Foreverslow]

the majority of f150 issues are on ICE units. The eco boost 4 and 6 both have MAJOR issues with the heads, turbos, and head gaskets that cannot take the pressures (these motors are wound up for all that crazy power). They let go slowly putting water into the sump thereby wiping the bearings with a fix of a complete motor replacement at 20k a shot, and without ever sending out a warning message (think of your boat diesel where you have not replaced the shaft seals on your raw water pump and it starts filling the oil sump with sea water). CEO Farley already fired the QC vp along with several other vps.

They have issues getting batteries for the estang and lightning. Again, if all was rosy folks who are being quoted months to their lightning built would jump on these cancellations. That is not happening. May have to do with the base price going from 40 to 60K with 2023s and the fact car loans are now at 9-10 percent at most banks. Not worth the hassle with an economy in decline and/or banks balking at lending such amounts on a non-commercial vehicle.

Last fall a $40k 2022 lightning at 2.5 percent at 60 months is 708 a month
Today a $60k 2023 lightning at 9 percent at 60 months is 1244 a month
Lot more money for Joe Sixpack.


73% of autos purchased are financed in US.
Just heard today Goldman Sachs is in SERIOUS trouble due to jumping into consumer loans in the past couple years. Lost 3.7 billion last year, most in q4. Could not happen to a better group of lowlifes, but with them, JP Morgan and others cutting back on consumer loans, Ally and the other major automotive lenders in serious financial trouble (heard of one who is putting 53x more money aside for loan losses this quarter), it is going to get a lot harder to get a loan on these very expensive pickups.

Major headwind for EV purchases.

your point on charging stations is very valid.
In some cases in the western US, the charge stations are further apart than range of the truck pulling a trailer. You cannot get to the next charger. That has to be fixed for the technology to be viable.


Ok, back to the EV discussion.

I stand corrected.
Ford has shut down building f150 Lightnings due to battery packs catching fire.
In the words of Dirty Harry "Swell, just Swell..."

 

[IStream]

Just installed a 48A level 2 charger at home. I can now "fill" the Bolt EUV for a week's worth of driving in under 5 hours, generally Sunday night. I freaking love this thing.

 

[Olsonist]

Just installed a 48A level 2 charger at home. I can now "fill" the Bolt EUV for a week's worth of driving in under 5 hours, generally Sunday night. I freaking love this thing.

It's nice never having to go the gas station. Still, you're going to need to stop at a gas station in a few months for something, maybe air, who knows. Then you're going to find out how bad gas smells. When I drove with my brother in his ICE car, damn that thing was loud.

 

[Bagheera]

That is my experience as well. I always charge at home, live in a state without inspections and it shows: the cars are bad here....
They stink, are noisy and the single gas station in town always has a line of cars waiting for it. At 4 cents a mile in 'fuel' costs I beat any ICE car ever. Charging costs 10 seconds to plug in and 8 seconds to unplug.
Power outages? The worst one I experienced in the last 8 years lasted 15 minutes. Price fluctuations and increases? A lot less than what gasoline and diesel are subjected to.

Once you get used to an EV you NEVER want to go back to those primitive ICE cars.

 

[IStream]

It's nice never having to go the gas station. Still, you're going to need to stop at a gas station in a few months for something, maybe air, who knows. Then you're going to find out how bad gas smells. When I drove with my brother in his ICE car, damn that thing was loud.

We still own a couple of ICE vehicles and will for quite some time until the charging infrastructure gets to where it needs to be. However, the Bolt is perfect as a city car and is most efficient to use for things ICE vehicles are least efficient at (short trips, stop-and-go). I do all my own maintenance, including filling the tires, so once we go all-in on EV I'll never hit a gas station again. Well, except for beef jerky on a road trip!

 

[gptyk]

It's nice never having to go the gas station. Still, you're going to need to stop at a gas station in a few months for something, maybe air, who knows. Then you're going to find out how bad gas smells. When I drove with my brother in his ICE car, damn that thing was loud.

Loud? Yup. Interestingly, when I ride in a ICE vehicle I find that the transmission changing gears is really annoying. It's just not the smooth I've gotten used to with the EV.

I probably should install a L2 charger. FFS, I've got a subpanel about 10ft away from where I plug in the car. But it's been fine on L1, so if it ain't broke....

 

[Olsonist]

Loud? Yup. Interestingly, when I ride in a ICE vehicle I find that the transmission changing gears is really annoying. It's just not the smooth I've gotten used to with the EV.

I probably should install a L2 charger. FFS, I've got a subpanel about 10ft away from where I plug in the car. But it's been fine on L1, so if it ain't broke....

It's supposedly easier on your battery as well. But it's nice to have a 240 circuit available when you need it. You don't actually need an L2 charger (although it's safer). It's also a good idea to stop at an RV campground and figure that out for charging before you need to.

 

[IStream]

A lithium battery can charge at a C/2 rate without any stress at all. Even a puny 65kWh Bolt battery won't notice the difference between a Level 1 charge at 1.5KW and a 48A Level 2 charge at 11kW as both are well below its 32.5kW C/2 rate.

 

[Alan H]

We just bought a Bolt for the Mrs. .. She loves it. We're still charging on 110 but probably will get a 240 outlet installed soon.

 

[Quickstep192]

What amperage circuit do the 240v chargers require?

 

[Olsonist]

What amperage circuit do the 240v chargers require?

Anywhere from 20-50.

You've got a few factors. First, how much will the car draw? You don't need to knock in a 100A circuit if your Nissan Leaf will only draw 27.5A @ 6.6kW. That would only need a 40A circuit.

40 or 50 are pretty standard for L2 charging. You can use 20 if you are charging at 3.3kW. Also, if you future proof and knock in 50, your 3.3kW 2013 Nissan S is not going to melt. It's just going to use fewer amps.

An electrician can scratch this out.

 

[Quickstep192]

I have a 20A 240v circuit for my car lift. I’d prefer to use that, even if charging takes longer. It’s not impossible, but since the panel is at the opposite end of the house, running 6awg or maybe even 4awg will be a pain.

 

[Olsonist]

I have a 20A 240v circuit for my car lift. I’d prefer to use that, even if charging takes longer. It’s not impossible, but since the panel is at the opposite end of the house, running 6awg or maybe even 4awg will be a pain.

Yeah, that'll work. You just have to dial down the EVSE (charger) and it'll take longer; but that'll be during the night when you're sleeping (when tariffs may be lower as well). It will also be easier on your battery.

A ChargePoint Flex can be configured from 16-50A.

 

[Olsonist]

Mississippi bill aiming to restrict EV direct sales passes the Senate

Tesla and other electric vehicle makers may find it harder to open new company-owned stores in Mississippi.

www.teslarati.com