F-35 Vinson Mishap

[Dilligaf0220]

What I heard is that the layout of the Tomcat wasn't suitable for modernization.  The RCS of looking into the intakes straight at the fans was enormous and not easily corrected.

There was almost the same opposition to modernizing the B-52.

Now the last crew of a B-1 when it's retired will catch a ride home on a B-52Z.

 

[luminary]

Huh. The airbags didn't go off.

View attachment 488177

Ah - I see the problem... they had it in reverse

 

[Ventucky Red]

There was almost the same opposition to modernizing the B-52.

Now the last crew of a B-1 when it's retired will catch a ride home on a B-52Z.

The great-grandchildren of some of the original B-52 aircrews are now flying them.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/how-b-52-bomber-will-keep-flying-100-years-138947

 

[Foreverslow]

What I heard is that the layout of the Tomcat wasn't suitable for modernization.  The RCS of looking into the intakes straight at the fans was enormous and not easily corrected.

Ward Carroll is Point Break of F-14 Tomcats.

20 years in the back seat and a Rolodex of high ranking naval aviators.

Stories upon stories on Youtube.

 

[Zonker]

Ah - I see the problem... they had it in reverse

Yeah I was wondering the same thing. Spun off the deck and landed backwards and skipped along the water?

It is leaving a bit of a wake to the left of the bow, uh nose.

 

[Laker]

It is a stealth aircraft.  They will never find it.

 

[Crash]

In the video, there is a major application of power seconds before the plane goes out of sight and you hear the boom.  So, based on both the condition of the plane in the water, and that major power application, I'd speculate that the pilot had a ramp strike, but really only sheared the landing gear (aircraft cleared the edge of the deck (or round down as we call it).  Plane slide down the angled landing area, and went over the side.  May well have spun 180 while sliding down the deck, but hard to say.  Sailors on the flight deck got injured by flying debris from the landing gear, landing gear doors, etc. 

Pilot may have been making his/her first "cruise" in the F-35, but it sure wasn't his/her first landing.  He/she would have originally carrier qualified in the T-45, then again in the F-35 Fleet Replacement Training Squadron before he/she ever showed up in his Fleet Squadron.  Ship has been deployed for approx 5 months, so they've already bagged a bunch of landings.  Obviously, he/she let themselves get low/slow on that one, usually by being high initially, and pulling a big handful of power to get down on glide slope.  Chances are somewhere in that process his/her scan broke down, and he/she didn't notice the sink rate until too late.  He/she isn't the pilot to make that mistake, and won't be the last pilot to make that mistake.

 

[Lark]

The great-grandchildren of some of the original B-52 aircrews are now flying them.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/how-b-52-bomber-will-keep-flying-100-years-138947

Is this a good thing, or a sign of our incompetent procurement process and the desire for the military to have a few reliable (if ancient) platforms to mix in with fantasy super weapons?   When Grandpa’s clunker (before the new engine) is more reliable then the sports car in the garage, I find myself wondering which will be the only vehicle that works if push comes to shove and we find ourself in a war we don’t start ourselves and get to schedule around maintenance needs.

 

[Ed Lada]

Is this a good thing, or a sign of our incompetent procurement process and the desire for the military to have a few reliable (if ancient) platforms to mix in with fantasy super weapons?   When Grandpa’s clunker (before the new engine) is more reliable then the sports car in the garage, I find myself wondering which will be the only vehicle that works if push comes to shove and we find ourself in a war we don’t start ourselves and get to schedule around maintenance needs.

I defer to the grand master of strategy and tactics, sir Donald 'Sun Tzu' Rumsfeld.

“You go to war with the Army you have, not the Army you might want or wish you had at a later time.” 

I worked at the US Army Europe HQ in logistics.  Our operations folks went into the secret filing cabinet and dusted off OPLAN 1003V for the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq shortly after 9/11.  A good amount of the troops and logistics came out of Europe for the fighting in Iraq.  We found out a lot about the equipment and the kind of things you wouldn't know about until you're actually breaking shit in the desert.  Suffice to say that no matter what the plan is, the fog of war is going to change everything.  Besides the known unknowns, there were a lot of unknown unknowns.  In spite of being a big bureaucracy, we did a lot of big changes on the fly. The ability to spend around a billion dollars a week helped a lot.

Just one example were the HMMWVs (High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicle).  Some of them were 'up-armored', a lot weren't when the combat started.  They kept adding more and more armor to them which lead to excessive weight and subsequently more breakdowns and tire wear.  The GVW of a normal thin skinned HMMWV is around 7,700 lbs.  The final armored version GVW is 11,500 pounds.  At one point early the war the tire manufacturers couldn't produce tires fast enough for the vehicles.  Then there was the roll over problem due to the extra armor changing the center of gravity.  This led to the rapid development of a 'roll over trainer' to teach soldiers how to egress their vehicle after it rolled over. Finally they just said fuck it and designed and built the MRAPs (Mine Resistant Ambush Protected) in record time, and threw most of the HMMWVs in the clearance bin at local thrift stores. 

The 'flak jackets' were another story.  The relatively light weight Kevlar vests just weren't offering enough protection which led to the accelerated development of ceramic SAPI (Small Arms Protective Inserts) plates which were heavier but added better protection.  

 

[Ease the sheet.]

In the video, there is a major application of power seconds before the plane goes out of sight and you hear the boom.  So, based on both the condition of the plane in the water, and that major power application, I'd speculate that the pilot had a ramp strike, but really only sheared the landing gear (aircraft cleared the edge of the deck (or round down as we call it).  Plane slide down the angled landing area, and went over the side.  May well have spun 180 while sliding down the deck, but hard to say.  Sailors on the flight deck got injured by flying debris from the landing gear, landing gear doors, etc. 

Pilot may have been making his/her first "cruise" in the F-35, but it sure wasn't his/her first landing.  He/she would have originally carrier qualified in the T-45, then again in the F-35 Fleet Replacement Training Squadron before he/she ever showed up in his Fleet Squadron.  Ship has been deployed for approx 5 months, so they've already bagged a bunch of landings.  Obviously, he/she let themselves get low/slow on that one, usually by being high initially, and pulling a big handful of power to get down on glide slope.  Chances are somewhere in that process his/her scan broke down, and he/she didn't notice the sink rate until too late.  He/she isn't the pilot to make that mistake, and won't be the last pilot to make that mistake.

Aren't f35's stovl?

 

[billy backstay]

Aren't f35's stovl?

I believe the Marine Corps version is the only one with STOVL capability.

 

[billy backstay]

In the video, there is a major application of power seconds before the plane goes out of sight and you hear the boom.  So, based on both the condition of the plane in the water, and that major power application, I'd speculate that the pilot had a ramp strike, but really only sheared the landing gear (aircraft cleared the edge of the deck (or round down as we call it).  Plane slide down the angled landing area, and went over the side.  May well have spun 180 while sliding down the deck, but hard to say.  Sailors on the flight deck got injured by flying debris from the landing gear, landing gear doors, etc. 

Pilot may have been making his/her first "cruise" in the F-35, but it sure wasn't his/her first landing.  He/she would have originally carrier qualified in the T-45, then again in the F-35 Fleet Replacement Training Squadron before he/she ever showed up in his Fleet Squadron.  Ship has been deployed for approx 5 months, so they've already bagged a bunch of landings.  Obviously, he/she let themselves get low/slow on that one, usually by being high initially, and pulling a big handful of power to get down on glide slope.  Chances are somewhere in that process his/her scan broke down, and he/she didn't notice the sink rate until too late.  He/she isn't the pilot to make that mistake, and won't be the last pilot to make that mistake.

Please direct me the to video?  The only one I have seen here was in the CNN story, and they were no this plane...

 

[NaptimeAgain]

https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2022/01/28/navy-says-the-leaked-images-of-the-f-35-crash-into-the-south-china-sea-are-real/

Video embedded in the article

 

[billy backstay]

https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2022/01/28/navy-says-the-leaked-images-of-the-f-35-crash-into-the-south-china-sea-are-real/

Video embedded in the article

Thanks!!

I found a "leaked video", in a Twitter post, but it did not show the landing, just the approach?

 

[NaptimeAgain]

I don't know that the full vid including the crash is out there anywhere.

 

[billy backstay]

I don't know that the full vid including the crash is out there anywhere.

Okay, thanks!  I know a local ex-Navy guy, he manages one of the small local Safe Harbor marinas.  He said when they weren't on duty, they would always go and watch the flight deck action!

 

[Blue Crab]

I read the Navy wants to find the photographer/"leaker."  Would have been nice to keep this under wraps 'til we recovered the plane. 

 

[NaptimeAgain]

What is the approximate depth at the site?  Presumably someone hit MOB on the nav? 

 

[Blue Crab]

What is the approximate depth at the site?  Presumably someone hit MOB on the nav? 

Someone opined on Twitter that there's likely a US sub right next to it by now or soonish. The Chinese have thrown a headfake that they "weren't interested."

Sure Jan.

 

[Bump-n-Grind]

I am astonished at the lack of security that would allow these images and videos to make it into the public domain in the first place. 

But I guess the oath to defend the country and the constitution gets a pass when you have an opportunity to generate "likes" on YouTwitFace.com