F1 2023

[ro!]

Where they fucked up was not alerting Alonso and his team in a timely manner so he could have made up for the time penalty in the final laps. He said he could have driven to an 11 second split, but didn't know that he had to.....

There is a timeline which I don’t know how to upload..
20.33. After pitstop the remote judge(in Geneva) say the pitstop penalty was correctly served.
21.24. Final lap..Stewards receive a report from race control that the penalty was not served correctly as the jack touched the car..
I think another team ratted them out!
21.38. Stewards note an incident with FA penalty.
21.45 FA given a 10 secs penalty for jack incident.
01.25 After hearing AM presentation showing 7 incidents of the jack touching the car by other teams without penalty they change the result back to FA 3rd.
So it bounced around from RC to stewards to remote judges and they all thought the penalty was correctly served until shown the jack touching the car by some one else..
They say a new rule will be written by the race in Oz..

 

[MR.CLEAN]

There is a timeline which I don’t know how to upload..
20.33. After pitstop the remote judge(in Geneva) say the pitstop penalty was correctly served.
21.24. Final lap..Stewards receive a report from race control that the penalty was not served correctly as the jack touched the car..
I think another team ratted them out!
21.38. Stewards note an incident with FA penalty.
21.45 FA given a 10 secs penalty for jack incident.
01.25 After hearing AM presentation showing 7 incidents of the jack touching the car by other teams without penalty they change the result back to FA 3rd.
So it bounced around from RC to stewards to remote judges and they all thought the penalty was correctly served until shown the jack touching the car by some one else..
They say a new rule will be written by the race in Oz..

The reason for the overturn was the acknowledgment that there was no guideline, policy, or agreed-upon definition indicating that 'work' on the car meant any touching at all. Hence the imminent new rule.

 

[ro!]

The reason for the overturn was the acknowledgment that there was no guideline, policy, or agreed-upon definition indicating that 'work' on the car meant any touching at all. Hence the imminent new rule.

There’s always been a no touching rule which is why Alpine got dinged when the mechanics wrench touched the car a tenth of a sec early in Bahrain, some how the rear jack touch has been missed until now..
I’m sure the procedures for notifying teams will be addressed too.

 

[MR.CLEAN]

There’s always been a no touching rule

My reading of the appeal decision revealed that there is not such a rule. There is a 'no working' rule, and a previous assumption that the teams accepted that 'work' means touching was shown to be incorrect.

 

[silent bob]

I liked Alonso in the post race show interview. It was after the 10 second penalty had been announced after the prize giving. He had a great attitude. He was happy that got a great start, admitting that he was outside the start box. He was happy that he lead, even for a short while. He didn't seem too upset about the 10 second penalty. Good to hear that he was reinstated.

George Russell admitted that Alonso deserved 3rd place, noting that he couldn't have touched Alonso.

Max drove very well to get into 2nd.

 

[ro!]

My reading of the appeal decision revealed that there is not such a rule. There is a 'no working' rule, and a previous assumption that the teams accepted that 'work' means touching was shown to be incorrect.

What ever dude..why did Alpine get a 10 sec penalty for a mechs wrench touching the car 1/10 sec early on a 5 sec penalty In Bahrain?

 

[Trovão]

What ever dude..why did Alpine get a 10 sec penalty for a mechs wrench touching the car 1/10 sec early on a 5 sec penalty In Bahrain?

1/10th? it seemed to me it was more like 4/10 or even 1/2 a sec.

 

[ro!]

1/10th? it seemed to me it was more like 4/10 or even 1/2 a sec.

Ok..you win..

 

[42 South]

My reading of the appeal decision revealed that there is not such a rule. There is a 'no working' rule, and a previous assumption that the teams accepted that 'work' means touching was shown to be incorrect.

The other factor to come out was that there are two jacks, one at the front and one at the back. The front jack is also designed to stop and locate the car and all teams use this. There is no distinction in the rules between the front and back jacks. The new rule will allow the front jack to do this but not the back jack.

 

[MR.CLEAN]

What ever dude..why did Alpine get a 10 sec penalty for a mechs wrench touching the car 1/10 sec early on a 5 sec penalty In Bahrain?

Don't know, don't care. I'm just telling you what the rules say, which is nothing about 'touching'. Cite the applicable Sporting Rule that disagrees with the stewards or accept that you're 100% wrong about 'touching'.


While a car is stationary in the pit lane as a result of incurring a penalty in accordance with Articles 54.3a) or 54.3b) above, it may not be worked on until the car has been stationary for the duration of the penalty. (emph mine)

 

[ro!]

Don't know, don't care. I'm just telling you what the rules say, which is nothing about 'touching'. Cite the applicable Sporting Rule that disagrees with the stewards or accept that you're 100% wrong about 'touching'.


While a car is stationary in the pit lane as a result of incurring a penalty in accordance with Articles 54.3a) or 54.3b) above, it may not be worked on until the car has been stationary for the duration of the penalty. (emph mine)

You are splitting hairs, you can’t work on it without touching it and they are not allowed to touch it with hands or tools.
In the appeal the reason the penalty was rescinded was the ‘ambiguity‘ of the rear jack touching the jack points, and AM showed video evidence that it had happened at least seven times before with other teams without penalty.
They were protested by another team..not hard to figure out who would want to fuck with FA’s podium..

You win…

 

[MR.CLEAN]

you can’t work on it without touching it and they are not allowed to touch it with hands or tools.

yeah, cool. Post that rule.

 

[mathystuff]

You are splitting hairs, you can’t work on it without touching it and they are not allowed to touch it with hands or tools.

(A => B) <=/=> (B => A)

It's not that hard to understand.

 

[ro!]

yeah, cool. Post that rule.

This is from an article on Planet that I can‘t download.

One can only imagine a competitor team had broached the topic with the RC, with the Race Director and Sporting Director both pointing out that the teams had agreed with the Sporting Advisory Committee (SAC) that
“no part of the car could be touched while a penalty was being served”

The penalty was not for the jack working on the car or lifting the car, it was for touching the car.

 

[ro!]

(A => B) <=/=> (B => A)

It's not that hard to understand.

Apparently it is for you..

 

[Chris in Santa Cruz CA]

I agree. I wasn't asking for there to be a rule. I was asking so I didn't trip over someone else's expectations.

Post away. I don’t check in here until I watch whatever was new.

 

[Chris in Santa Cruz CA]

Red Bulls are fast by a pretty big margin. Alonso is a fast smart racer. Full safety car was not needed. Going to be a good season 3rd through 20th.

 

[Terrorvision]

Red Bulls are fast by a pretty big margin. Alonso is a fast smart racer. Full safety car was not needed. Going to be a good season 3rd through 20th.

This time last year Leclerc was poised to run away with the season. There’ll be a big catch up soon and we may see that Red Bull will feel the effect of the cost-cap penalty as the season goes on and they can’t do big updates.
I read somewhere that Mercedes was ready with a new ‘with pod’ side-pod update.

 

[SCARECROW]

Lewis was underwhelmed with the whole deal after a shit first stint on hards..why has Angela left the scene the scene of the crime?

I think firing Cullen is literally the only change Hamilton can make in his life right now. He has no control over anything else.

Hamilton will be gone from f1 or jumped ship to Ferrari by 2024. Piastri will replace him at Mercedes…..

All seriousness if Hamilton does walk who are their genuine options to replace him…

Schumacher as a Bottas type second string to Russel.

Ricciardo as a proven race winner and experienced driver.

Lando very much Russel’s peer and locked in to a contract for now

Piastri- do we even know how long his contract is?

Who else is likely to be of interest and likely to jump given current performances?

 

[Mambo Kings]

I think firing Cullen is literally the only change Hamilton can make in his life right now. He has no control over anything else.

Hamilton will be gone from f1 or jumped ship to Ferrari by 2024. Piastri will replace him at Mercedes…..

All seriousness if Hamilton does walk who are their genuine options to replace him…

Schumacher as a Bottas type second string to Russel.

Ricciardo as a proven race winner and experienced driver.

Lando very much Russel’s peer and locked in to a contract for now

Piastri- do we even know how long his contract is?

Who else is likely to be of interest and likely to jump given current performances?

Its academic because Hamilton is not leaving Mercedes and certainly not leaving F1
If Mercedes have a pathway to a competitive car then Hamilton will stay with Merc'
If Toto sees that he will not have a competitive car for 2024 then he will give Hamilton a hall pass .

Hamilton is not a masochist so there is no way he will get into the Ferrari morass. If he does get the hall pass (and I think it is extremely unlikely) then surely Aston Martin will have to look at that opportunity very seriously. A lot of water has passed under the bridge since FA and LH were paired at McLaren. They are both GOATs , the two oldest drivers on the grid, and huge respect for each other (FA was the first to commiserate with LH after the Abu Dhabi fiasco) and affection has replaced the old wounds. They could put together an incredible display if they were given two competitive cars showing the young drivers a thing or two about what it really takes to be a GOAT. Their different driving styles complement each other....there is not a single track where they would not have a style that works. Lewis is familiar with the Mercedes power unit. The respect and affection of the Merc factory for Lewis would ensure AM continues to get excellent support for their power units.....and Merc would at least have a potential winning power unit while its factory team get on top of the aero issues. Lawrence will need to find a ride for his son....but in a way...it would remove the taint of nepotism and send a clear message about the seriousness of their intentions.

I just dont think it will happen because Toto will be determined to offer a pathway to a competitive car before the end of the season . But Toto did say (paraphrasing)...."lewis deserves to win another world championship. If we cannot offer a competitive car by 2025 then I understand if he has to move and Lewis knows that I understand. We have more time than he has"

Cullen's farewell was totally understandable. Lewis gave fulsome credit to her contribution, but as any high performance sport person or athlete will confirm, you have to shake up the team from time to time to get new ideas and create new energy. Its even possible that they both talked about it and recognized it was time.