Fastnet 2019

[psycho tiller]

There is a commonly held believe among a subset of the Solent yachting community that the IRC measurers in France and the French designers/yards might be....friendly.

I have no idea whether it's true or not. But plenty of people believe it.

Blaming ratings and measurements is also a convenient way to reason away a good ole fashioned ass kicking too.  Works great, I use it all the time and far less painful than looking in the mirror.  It simply defies the laws of physics for a boat that is inherently slower and with an unfair rating to beat a faster boat if the slower boat is sailed by a better crew.  Has never happened in the history of sailing.  Must be the rating.  :blink:   (not directed at you Quagers, I get that you're just conveying what some think and not necessarily agreeing or disagreeing with measuregeddon)

 

[Snowden]

Most UK old salts seem to have some horror story about a friend of a friend’s boat that got impounded in Cherbourg due to having no VAT/RCD certificate. Not sure if there’s any truth in it though. 

 

[Snowden]

Tail enders in for a bit of a pasting tomorrow am. Fortunately on the beam. Hope they get to Plymouth okay.

There are worse boats for that kind of weather than a CO32!

 

[cms]

Most UK old salts seem to have some horror story about a friend of a friend’s boat that got impounded in Cherbourg due to having no VAT/RCD certificate. Not sure if there’s any truth in it though. 

It is bollocks.

 

[psycho tiller]

Jacques Valer (the designer) is an impressive guy. It is also the victory of pencil over computer as he does a lot of his designing from first principles.

Just read on the JPK website Jacques Valer also designed the IRC 1 first place Milon 41 boat "L'Ange De Milon".  That makes him the designer of the first place boat in IRC 1,2,3 and 4.  Not bad for a guy with a pad of paper and pencil.

 

[Panoramix]

Just read on the JPK website Jacques Valer also designed the IRC 1 first place Milon 41 boat "L'Ange De Milon".  That makes him the designer of the first place boat in IRC 1,2,3 and 4.  Not bad for a guy with a pad of paper and pencil.

I've never met him but the guy seems to be an interesting character. Initially he was working as an officer on super tankers and between shifts on boats he was working as an "amateur naval architect". He wasn't bad for an amateur as he designed the Alado, a formula 18 catamaran that was the boat to beat in the 90s, the boat was so good that Hobie bought him the rights (the future Hobie cat tiger). In the 90s there was also a prototype called "matamouf of recoucou" which was really good in IRC (CHS at the time!).

There is a detailed article in French about him : https://voilesetvoiliers.ouest-france.fr/industrie-nautique/chantiers/architecture-navale/jacques-valer-l-alchimiste-de-l-irc-1322aa34-14d7-be44-a40b-e08f8ed7cc8b

 

[Cuffy]

The last boat racing has just finished, Grand Slam,so a hearty congratulations to the crew for their perseverance

 

[P_Wop]

The last boat racing has just finished, Grand Slam,so a hearty congratulations to the crew for their perseverance

There's a special RORC trophy awarded to the last finisher, the "Galley Slave Trophy."  A giant wooden spoon which is won by the cook.

 

[Miffy]

I've never met him but the guy seems to be an interesting character. Initially he was working as an officer on super tankers and between shifts on boats he was working as an "amateur naval architect". He wasn't bad for an amateur as he designed the Alado, a formula 18 catamaran that was the boat to beat in the 90s, the boat was so good that Hobie bought him the rights (the future Hobie cat tiger). In the 90s there was also a prototype called "matamouf of recoucou" which was really good in IRC (CHS at the time!).

There is a detailed article in French about him : https://voilesetvoiliers.ouest-france.fr/industrie-nautique/chantiers/architecture-navale/jacques-valer-l-alchimiste-de-l-irc-1322aa34-14d7-be44-a40b-e08f8ed7cc8b

Can totally see why he & JP get along. Even if one isn't involved in IRC sailing or necessarily into the JPK market - just reading JP's journals re transquadra or various events/boat launchings - you can tell it is a small yard with a owner who is personally invested & feels for his boats & owners & also gives kudos to better sailors/even if they're on other boats. 

 

[SPORTSCAR]

The last boat racing has just finished, Grand Slam,so a hearty congratulations to the crew for their perseverance

Cool Fact: The very same boat was also the only Div 4 competitor to finish in the horror 1979 Fastnet.

Admirable perseverance, much respect.

 

[hoom]

There's a special RORC trophy awarded to the last finisher, the "Galley Slave Trophy."  A giant wooden spoon which is won by the cook.

Ooh is that the original wooden spoon?

 

[Potter]

It is bollocks.

Not entirely. I know  one boat that was chained to the Dock in Brest for non-payment. They had not intended to stop, but had a Mayday situation. Called into Brest, and got chained to the Dock. 

British boat, Gibraltar registration. 

Took a week or so to get it sorted. 

This was about 7 or 8 years ago. 

 

[cms]

Not entirely. I know  one boat that was chained to the Dock in Brest for non-payment. They had not intended to stop, but had a Mayday situation. Called into Brest, and got chained to the Dock. 

British boat, Gibraltar registration. 

Took a week or so to get it sorted. 

This was about 7 or 8 years ago. 

Gibraltar registration says it all. Probably without the correct people and passports to match the registration? In France, in summer, there are regular, mainly educational, checks made on the water by the Douanes, Affaires Maritimes and Gendarmerie Maritime. They generally ignore non French vessels unless something has piqued their curiosity. The check safety kit and permits, and, in season, quantities and sizes of fish and shellfish. With UK flag vessels they may ask to see registration and passport. VAT paid or not on UK flag vessels, not based in France, does not fall within what they are tasked with checking, and in not a French responsibility.

 

[Potter]

Gibraltar registration says it all. Probably without the correct people and passports to match the registration? In France, in summer, there are regular, mainly educational, checks made on the water by the Douanes, Affaires Maritimes and Gendarmerie Maritime. They generally ignore non French vessels unless something has piqued their curiosity. The check safety kit and permits, and, in season, quantities and sizes of fish and shellfish. With UK flag vessels they may ask to see registration and passport. VAT paid or not on UK flag vessels, not based in France, does not fall within what they are tasked with checking, and in not a French responsibility.

Crew and papers were all good. VAT was the issue. 

 

[spyderpig]

Crew and papers were all good. VAT was the issue.

That can work both ways at present but will dissapear once th UK is out of the EU making visits for boats with suspect VAT status less problamatic. At present French boats purchased through their 50% VAT reduction scheme have had problems when visiting UK shores.

 

[moody frog]

Can totally see why he & JP get along. Even if one isn't involved in IRC sailing or necessarily into the JPK market - just reading JP's journals re transquadra or various events/boat launchings - you can tell it is a small yard with a owner who is personally invested & feels for his boats & owners & also gives kudos to better sailors/even if they're on other boats. 

Yes, JPK is special and those successes owe a lot to his personality.

Some 30 + years ago, we  were sponsoring a youngster, who was one of the top 5 sailboard racers in the world (Div II). His early maturity and practical attitude  was striking and I admired it. Quite unsurprisingly he quickly became the manufacturing honcho of one of the top builders in that class "Jaguar". With the demise of that company (and class) he, then, started JPK as a semi-custom board builder.

Nowadays when the big French brands are run by marketing "whizzs" and have to grant big distribution margins to fill their huge capacities, the time of smaller yards who build to the size of the market and aim to supply real sailors  with no-compromise boats has come. Quite logically he shines amongst these 2 or 3 yards. That he is the only IRC racer amongst the yard bosses obviously helps too.

I'm a fan .....

 

[Jules]

Charal tour, before the fastnet start :

Thanks for the video.  Really interesting.  Early on he says the auto pilot sails the boat better than the helmsman.  Reminded me of my Air Force pilot cousin telling me years ago pilots can't react fast enough to fly fighter jets.  Never thought sailing would reach that point.  Then they show the nav station.  Looks like a blend of Formula One, NASA and something a garage genius cobbled together.

When foilers become common in the rest of the sailing world, Taylor Made will have their work cut out for them designing fenders.

 

[Jules]

The reality is that the French crews train regularly, keep optimising their boats, quite often at home they end up racing pros / semi pros (figaro and mini sailors), and there are even semi pro sailors who crew on Corinthian boats and that there are good designers who keep raising their game as the the competition between designers and yards is intense.

Plus they have the right amount of crazy needed to push the limits.

 

[cms]

Crew and papers were all good. VAT was the issue. 

What I said.… Because of non EU registry, they were asked to prove status. Gib registry generally means no VAT paid, so limited access to EU waters, time conditions etc. What they would have been after is whether an EU resident was the actual beneficial owner, and therefore abusing the system.

 

[cms]

That can work both ways at present but will dissapear once th UK is out of the EU making visits for boats with suspect VAT status less problamatic. At present French boats purchased through their 50% VAT reduction scheme have had problems when visiting UK shores.

Quote me an instance of a French flag vessel, on an LOA (French leasing scheme), being bothered by UK customs. Where the harder bit comes in, though I have yet to encounter this in UK, is that on change of ownership and flag to another EU nation, the local customs teams can be arsy about the lower rate of VAT paid. However, legally, there is no problem. Sold out of a lease, there is a VAT invoice from the French VAT registered bank or finance company and this 100% proves VAT paid status.