Fattening up a halyard

Old Pirate

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I'm trying to figure out a way to keep the jib halyard from slipping in the clutch (Spinlock XAS on an older Beneteau35.) I know I'm asking too much of the clutch, but upgrading the clutch is something I want to avoid since it's in the middle of a row of 6 and anything that can handle higher load is wider than the space available. The existing halyard is 10mm, I have tried putting a sleeve on it where the clutch grabs it which works, but with my limited rigging skills the whipping on the ends of the sleeve comes undone and it doesn't last.

The other thought I had is to insert a length of cord into the center core to fatten up the halyard.  Measure, strip the cover back to the right point, insert some dyneema or whatever into the core, pull the cover back over it.   Seems like this should work.

Any tips, advice, or suggestions before I dive in?  Any good on-line resources for this?

 

silent bob

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An insert can help, but wont eliminate slipping.  What’s the core material?  If it’s Dacron, it’s too stretchy to do anything!  Clutches really aren’t made to carry the whole load.  Keeping the halyard on the winch will stop the slippage.  
 

And, don’t think that adding a 2mm insert into a 10mm core will get you 12mm!  It gets you 10.2mm!  You have to add the areas of the core and insert together.  A 5mm insert into a 10mm core nets you a 11.18mm section!

https://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?/topic/212463-halyard-slips-in-clutch/&tab=comments#comment-6855893

07AB3342-BD70-4A0B-B96A-E4DDFA8FB5F7.png

 
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Zonker

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Yes properly sized clutches hold full loads. The XAS for a halyard on a 35' boat is too small. But bulking the core is easy and the best way to do this. 

 

silent bob

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Yes properly sized clutches hold full loads. The XAS for a halyard on a 35' boat is too small. But bulking the core is easy and the best way to do this. 
They “Hold” the load, but they’ll still slip!  There’s just not enough contact area.  My boat came with a plain top winch.  I upgraded to a two speed self-tailer, and keep the Genoa halyard on it while sailing upwind.  It’s a Vectran core halyard, so I know it’s not stretching!  And the Genoa is a molded Carbon-Technora blend, so I know that’s not stretching!   I have ZERO issues with luff tension!  If you want zero slip without a winch, a halyard lock or a Spinlock ZS Jammer are the way to ($$$) go!  

 

Zonker

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I guess I can live with 1/4" of slip. 520 ft2 / 49m2 genoa on our cat. Dyneema core/polyester cover 10mm halyard. Spinlock XTS clutch. The core had a bulker at the clutch. After days of beating in really heavy winds I did see some slip.

But on the Beneteau 35 I think a XAS is just too small.

 

silent bob

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On the Farr 40’s, I trimmed the jib by halyard tension.  If it was off more than a couple of millimeters, I couldn’t get my desired trim.  1/4” of range was well beyond too loose to too tight!  On one Farr 40, they blew the mast base turning block off the deck!  Hourglassed three 1/4” machine screws, before they blew!  Brand new PBO Jib, brand new PBO halyard. Something had to give!  

 

Wet Spreaders

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I agree with Silent Bob - just poke a 1/8” piece of cheap Dacron cord up the core +/- a couple of feet from where the clutch grabs the halyard.

Also, consider keeping the halyard on the winch upwind, you have more control of luff tension and sail shape that way anyhow, and guaranteed no slip.

 

Old Pirate

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Thanks all for the advice.  I know I'm asking too much from the clutch.  The problem is there's 3 doubles lined up on the cabin top and no room to put a clutch in series or something with better load holding in the middle.  I could put a clutch on the mast but that's a last resort.  Keeping it on the winch works until there's something else that needs to be adjusted.

I'll try a core insert. 

 

Max Rockatansky

holy fuckfarts!
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I went to these bc the line slipped in the conventional clutches, eating the cover whilst doing so. Best money I spent in late 2013

4F47F673-6EC3-4FDC-AA06-4BB0FB31ABFF.jpeg

 

slug zitski

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Thanks all for the advice.  I know I'm asking too much from the clutch.  The problem is there's 3 doubles lined up on the cabin top and no room to put a clutch in series or something with better load holding in the middle.  I could put a clutch on the mast but that's a last resort.  Keeping it on the winch works until there's something else that needs to be adjusted.

I'll try a core insert. 
Core bulker is a good Choice …simple, cheap 

An extra cover is best used when protecting from chafe 

clutches don’t last forever …take it apart, inspect for wear 

 

221J

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Spinlock makes ceramic XAS cam replacements.  The Spinlock description says they don't increase the load carrying capacity but they resist slip better.

 

silent bob

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I agree with Silent Bob - just poke a 1/8” piece of cheap Dacron cord up the core +/- a couple of feet from where the clutch grabs the halyard.

Also, consider keeping the halyard on the winch upwind, you have more control of luff tension and sail shape that way anyhow, and guaranteed no slip.
As I said above, a small insert does next to nothing!  If you’re going to do an insert, you have to go big!  On a 10mm core, a 1/8” (3mm) insert will only increase the diameter to 10.44mm!  A with a 1/4” (6mm) insert, the diameter will increase to 11.66mm.  You really need to go upwards of 7-8mm To get a significant increase in diameter and cross section. 

 

sailorman44

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When inserting a piece of line into the core of your halyard be sure to sew along the length to lock it in place. 

 
Two ways to attach a cover to a halyard. 
 
1. Using a fid insert the end of the halyard 6-8 inches from the end of the cover and out 6-8 inches from the other end leaving a flap at each end. Slide the cover into position then insert a D-splicer into the halyard 6-8 inches from the end of the cover and out just at the cover. Insert the cover flap into the D-splicer and pull the flap into the halyard and out. Taper the flap then milk it back into the halyard smoothing the point where the flap was inserted into the halyard. The advantage of this method is that it is reversible and the cover can be replaced. 
 
2. The advantage of this method is that it can be done to an existing cover that is whipped on. The disadvantage is that it cannot be reversed. Unlay 4-5 inches of the cover, using a sail needle sew each strand progressively further along the halyard until all strands are tucked into the halyard. It will become progressively harder to push the needle thru the halyard as you continue.
 
The cover needs to be the tightest that will still slide along the halyard. If it is at all loose the clutch will quickly tear it up. You won't get a season out of it and when it goes it will jam the clutch and take hours to clear.
 

silent bob

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I’ve never stitched in an insert, and I’ve never had one move!  The core will constrict around it, just like a splice.  When dissecting old halyards, I’ve had a hard time removing some inserts that weren’t stitched in.

 

Wet Spreaders

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I’ve never stitched in an insert, and I’ve never had one move!  The core will constrict around it, just like a splice.  When dissecting old halyards, I’ve had a hard time removing some inserts that weren’t stitched in.
I agree - no need to fix the core insert in place - stays all by itself

 

MiddayGun

Super Anarchist
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The newer spinlocks seem to resist slippage a lot better than the old ones. 

I have an old set of triple XA's each side of the companionway & despite rebuilding with all new bits, they still tend to slip a bit under load. 
When racing we just leave the halyard on the winch upwind, downwind we need the winch for the kite, but the luff tension isn't really important then. 

The XAS ones I added later seem to have a much better hold.

 
the best way I have bulked up a line at a clutch was to take a cover over the area but instead of whipping the ends, you break it down into threads and then stich them into the rest of the line going both ways away from your bulked area. You do part of it with a lot of stiches spread out over a long area and then less and less till you are just putting a a couple of stiches in for the final few. You are tapering the line both ways away from your bulking by doing this. This way takes a very long time but is a very secure way of bulking and it results in a very uniform bulking. That said, I think that if I did it again, I will would just pull in a bit of 1/8 dyneema under the core and see if that worked... very fast. As suggested above. 

 

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