Fduck Foiling!
- Thread starter BobBill
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Swimsailor
Super Anarchist
Bikes are equipment used in different sports. Bikes have evolved which is exactly the point.
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But in the most popular sport that use bikes they haven't evolved all that much - certainly not as much as sailing craft have. For instance it's interesting to read Michael Henderson's account of riding the bike that took the 1908 (or thereabouts) hour record, where he notes that although he was a pro time triallist with a techno fetish so strong that he spent years sleeping every night in an oxygen tent, the bike that was a century old basically felt very familiar.
Of course modern bikes are a bit faster, significantly lighter etc but the weekend warrior can still buy a bike just like the one that wins the Tour - actually WW can ride a lighter one to work each day. And ALL of the UCI bikes are dramatically slower than the fastest bikes - and vastly more popular. The evolution is minor (or let's say comparatively minor, to stop getting into a debate about how to define "minor") and has been directed to ensure that bikes remain accessible - and it works.
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Leeroy Jenkins
Super Anarchist
It's also legal in many other parts of cycling. The UCI covers a very very small part of the cycling spectrum (tour, worlds etc). I could go and ride a P3X in the national level competition (perhaps not in america, they seem to like the UCI a bit too much). Otherwise it's an oddity that worlds and so on fall under the UCI.
Actually the 'man on the street' can ride plenty of 'conventional' bikes that are not UCI legal - the weight limits mean that many of the pro bikes are heavier/have to be ballasted to meet the minimum weight, where everyone else can go off and enjoy the fun that materials and construction enable.
So basically the UCI is an anachronism.. perhaps like the OP
As to sailing: Uffa Fox - "weight is only useful in a steamroller", maker of notably light and planing (big thing once) dinghies. Spinning, I rather doubt.. leading the charge more likely.
BobBill
Super Anarchist
- Thread starter
- #48
Apple-to-apples is not oranges-to-apples.
I do not disagree with the above. (Uffa's quote is not in context.) And, remember, "dog loves his own...!"
Changes happen, but...some are create a complete "change?" Atomic piles heat, so do coal stoves. Not the same.
Is "physics" the same as " quantum mechanics."
I do not agree "foiling" is "sailing." Helmets? Some swabs agree; some do not! Still, as a "sailing venue," "Fduck foiling!"
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So if foiling is not sailing, at what nano second does a "sailor" become something else when they go out on a foiling Laser?
Obviously when they are sailing their foiling Laser on a reach at (say) 5.5 knots and the boat is not foiling, the person is still sailing. After all, they are just on a Laser with different foils. To claim that when the Laser reaches (say) 5.51 knots and pops out onto its foils, the sailor is suddenly doing another sport - on exactly the same boat, the same day, the same wind, the same minute - is very strange and utterly illogical.
Maybe you should actually try it before you decide you know about it.
I always find it strange that you preach being harmless and bothering no one, but sling shit at the boats others sail.
Obviously when they are sailing their foiling Laser on a reach at (say) 5.5 knots and the boat is not foiling, the person is still sailing. After all, they are just on a Laser with different foils. To claim that when the Laser reaches (say) 5.51 knots and pops out onto its foils, the sailor is suddenly doing another sport - on exactly the same boat, the same day, the same wind, the same minute - is very strange and utterly illogical.
Maybe you should actually try it before you decide you know about it.
I always find it strange that you preach being harmless and bothering no one, but sling shit at the boats others sail.
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In your opinion a sportcar isn‘t a car and a camper as well. But as the driver you still drive a car, don‘t you?
Well the keel and the ruder of most sailboats even the classic ones are foils. Trimming a sailboat the right way (e.g. explained in The Art and Science of Sails) on a beating course means balancing the aerodynamic setup of the sails with the hydrodynamics setup of the hull, keel and rudder(s).
My definition of sailing is to have a sail/wing with a mast, a hull and the need to trimm the sail in relation to wind and course. Thus, for me kite-surfers not belong to the group of sailors. They kite, not sail. If my hull is on foils or not makes no difference to me.
Well the keel and the ruder of most sailboats even the classic ones are foils. Trimming a sailboat the right way (e.g. explained in The Art and Science of Sails) on a beating course means balancing the aerodynamic setup of the sails with the hydrodynamics setup of the hull, keel and rudder(s).
My definition of sailing is to have a sail/wing with a mast, a hull and the need to trimm the sail in relation to wind and course. Thus, for me kite-surfers not belong to the group of sailors. They kite, not sail. If my hull is on foils or not makes no difference to me.
BobBill
Super Anarchist
- Thread starter
- #51
Maybe I has..."nano second" is just more "helmeted jetsam"...look, I enjoyed the AC races and have seen the boats run, fine! I got it!
But, I have preferences and grant divides. I would never trade a Finn for a "Further Fducked Laser" and a helmet, before or after that nano. Life goes on, will deal with it either way.
But, I have preferences and grant divides. I would never trade a Finn for a "Further Fducked Laser" and a helmet, before or after that nano. Life goes on, will deal with it either way.
Swimsailor
Super Anarchist
No one said you can't have preferences, but that doesn't give you the right to decide what is sailing and what is not.
I didn't say it was. It uses the fastest UCI legal bikes and is a fairly small discipline, which may be significant in itself. The more popular disciplines use slower bikes which in many cases (ie road and track and perhaps BMX) have "evolved" less, which may itself say something about the evolution of sporting equipment.
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KC375
Super Anarchist
It seems to me sailing is foiling, or maybe that is foiling(s).
The essence of sailing is the use of two or more foils with at least one in the air and one in water, to travel from one point to another. I was sailing I14s at the time windsurfers hit the scene. What a difference - trapeze, three sails, a gazillion adjustments to play or true simplicity - two foils one board, one sailor.
It seems to me kiteboarding is, like windsuring - sailing reduced to its essence - a person and two foils
The essence of sailing is the use of two or more foils with at least one in the air and one in water, to travel from one point to another. I was sailing I14s at the time windsurfers hit the scene. What a difference - trapeze, three sails, a gazillion adjustments to play or true simplicity - two foils one board, one sailor.
It seems to me kiteboarding is, like windsuring - sailing reduced to its essence - a person and two foils
Only if it's allowed to race, and not racing on corrected time. That's a very big difference from the fastest possible boat, or the fastest boat that can enter, winning.
@BobBill: simple yes/no question to which you owe an answer to the SA community:
Have you EVER sailed/driven/flown/crewed-on a foiler?
If it's not "sailing" please tell us, from your experience, what it is. And until you do try it, STFU. The last thing the world needs is more puerile politicization, even of our sport. Politics relies on artificial division. Stop it. Or take it to PA, where you get bonus points for being stupid.
Have you EVER sailed/driven/flown/crewed-on a foiler?
If it's not "sailing" please tell us, from your experience, what it is. And until you do try it, STFU. The last thing the world needs is more puerile politicization, even of our sport. Politics relies on artificial division. Stop it. Or take it to PA, where you get bonus points for being stupid.
Swimsailor
Super Anarchist
Well, you said word for word "the most popular sport that use bikes...". Triathlon is way more popular than road racing.
No matter. TT bikes are designed for a very specific purpose... to go fast in a straight line while not drafting off anyone.
Any discipline on a bike is cycling. If someone says they're a cyclist I'm assuming they have a quiver of bikes in their garage...TT bike, road bike, MTB, a gravel grinder, a single speed and maybe an e-bike for commuting. ALL of them are bikes.
As for foiling? Hull, sails, rudder...all components of a sailboat. A center board serves a different function than a keel. Twin rudders work differently than a single rudder. And elevating foils are no different. They just tremendously reduce drag by getting the entire hull out of the water. You still have to sail the boat. Foiling is sailing. To try and prove otherwise is a futile attempt to start an arguement. TT bike to impractical to commute on? Buy a commuter bike. Don't like foiling boats? Don't buy one. Pretty simple.
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Dex Sawash
Demi Anarchrist
I think we can all agree that fduck is a stupid name for a boat. I wouldn't mind a link to video of it foiling so I don't have to go to the fdrunt page.
