Fiberglass repair recommendation.

Dex Sawash

Demi Anarchrist
2,570
796
NC USA
Impossible to pull nitrile or latex gloves on sweaty hands.

When working with gloves on, your hands will stay damp.

(At least mine do)

Get a bottle of baby powder to put on your hands if you need to change gloves quickly.

You will tear a glove or you will get your gloves too goopey to continue and need to hot-swap. I buy tongue depressor sticks (the ones the dr uses) for mixing epoxy like $8 for 500.

Use a clean tongue depressor to flick off your first glove, otherwise you have to jam a goopey finger inside a glove to get a glove off.

I like an anti-freeze jug or gallon windshield washer fluid jug split open taped to the outside as a backer.

Vinegar will get uncured epoxy off your skin (or tools or whatever).

Get a big bottle of cheap white vinegar and plenty of paper towels.

Cheap nylon paint brushes 1" or 1.5" are great for wetting out cloth or painting epoxy on the old surface. Get the ones that look like you could actually paint with them at HF for 79 cents each. (You can't paint with them, but they look ok) Buy 8 or 10 of them.

Don't buy the beige chip brushes made from a hog's asshole hairs (or Chinese political prisoners) they suck.

I mix in the plastic lowball drinking cups, big bag from warehouse club.

You want to avoid anything with lots of internal ridges that impede mixing.

Solo cups are bad.

I save all my used mixing cups to check after a few hours to be sure the residue went off in the cup. Just so you never wonder if you lost count of the number of pumps of part B in batch #12 when you are pounding upwind for 6 hours in 25 kts.

Fiberglass is the idiot's friend. If you fuck it up you just grind it out and go again. You won't fuck it up though.

 

Memopad

Super Anarchist
1,712
0
Marquette, MI
It's a 70's pearson, of course it's solid glass :D

It's not his first rodeo with fiberglass or epoxy, he'll be fine. We just needed to kick him in the butt out the door a bit.

 

Ajax

Super Anarchist
14,791
3,058
Edgewater, MD
The hull is solid glass.

The hole is 1.5 - 2".

I appreciate all of the advice on materials, equipment and list-making. As Memopad says, this is not my first trip with epoxy. I own several of the fun, little epoxy tools and materials already, and I've successfully repaired pieces in the past. The fact that I have some experience, but still have concern about making this repair, should clue you in that something is different, or special about this problem.

In this West Systems document: http://www.westsystem.com/ss/repairing-machined-holes-in-fiberglass/

My "problem" is best summed up by the repair procedure at the very bottom. It does NOT take into account that I don't have good access on the inside of the hull, nor does it take into account the "V" shape that I have to recreate. By West's own document, this kind of repair is rated "highest risk" on their little graph.

I now have answers to the specific questions that I was asking earlier, as well as answers to questions I didn't think to ask.

I understand the procedure which should be used.

I have one, maybe two people willing to advise me while I do the work.

I understand which materials I need to do the job.

Next, I will still be calling two professionals to get quotes for the work.

As spring nears, I will make a decision on how I want to handle it.

Absolute worst case, I will simply re-install the dead transducer with the proper materials so that it doesn't leak.

This whole problem is because one of the PO's used JBWeld or Marine-Tex to bed the through-hull, and did a shitty, haphazard job on top of that. At the very least, I could do a better job with epoxy and/or 3M5200.

 

Grande Mastere Dreade

Snag's spellchecker
I mix in the plastic lowball drinking cups, big bag from warehouse club.

You want to avoid anything with lots of internal ridges that impede mixing.

Solo cups are bad.

not the short clear plastic solo cups... you mean the tall colored ones.. I like the idea of holding onto the cups to see the cure

I've gone away from the pumps and weigh everything with a digital scale.. the pumps I just use to fill glass jars with resin and hardener (spererately of course) and pour from there instead of the cans..

 

estarzinger

Super Anarchist
7,624
1,010
Yes epoxy is the ticket, but poly does work...I mean, aren't all glass boats poly? But, repairs are best epoxy, no doubt...better slow and safe, then wet and so on.
Mmmm . . . The inside and outside bevel and all is certaintly the "best" fix . . . . But I am just sitting here wondering if it is all way overkill for this job.

What about pulling the transducer, cleaning up the sides of the hole to nice clean/bare glass, taping a piece of waxed aluminum (so the heat does not make it sag) tightly over the bottom of the hole, poring some thickened epoxy in, jamming some pre-wet (epoxy) cloth in and then topping it up with thickened epoxy, and then say two layers of cloth over the top feathered out onto the hull. Really, that is not going to pop out, and it is not going to leak and it is not going to break, and it is going to be way way quicker and easier and not give Ajax any heartburn about the outside cosmetics.

With this thick a hull (so lots of bond surface in the hole) Would that repair really give anyone any "safety" heartburn?

 
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BobBill

Super Anarchist
4,611
101
SE Minnesota.
Bucc +1. I appreciate the stick idea to get a purchase to pull off blues...btw, I use them more than once...nitriles were recommended by someone here as it does not let epoxy, acetone etc, penetrate...? Who knows? I switched from the whites and seem the same, save the safer part.

Small hole to fill, as I was thinking. Gee, maybe a bit of carbon in a cone, filled with PC11, then a piece or two of 2 oz glass faired, with a small piece of peel ply for slightly rough finish for fairing will do it...scraps might do it...you need some scraps of glass and small peel-ply I and most here likely have, the carbon, might have to be bought... but I just might have a piece of tubular left from last spar job.

If all that sounds like I know something about this kinda stuff, good, but, I really don't know squat.

Ajax, not problem with reinstall, but if it is out, or will be, why put it back? But, your job...so much fun...make lists... :)

And, as I think someone noted also, my best and thanks to all, not a flame here...we are soooo kewl :eek: )

 

BobBill

Super Anarchist
4,611
101
SE Minnesota.
Yes epoxy is the ticket, but poly does work...I mean, aren't all glass boats poly? But, repairs are best epoxy, no doubt...better slow and safe, then wet and so on.
Mmmm . . . The inside and outside bevel and all is certaintly the "best" fix . . . . But I am just sitting here wondering if it is all way overkill for this job.

What about pulling the transducer, cleaning up the sides of the hole to nice clean/bare glass, taping a piece of waxed aluminum (so the heat does not make it sag) tightly over the bottom of the hole, poring some thickened epoxy in, jamming some pre-wet (epoxy) cloth in and then topping it up with thickened epoxy, and then say two layers of cloth over the top feathered out onto the hull. Really, that is not going to pop out, and it is not going to leak and it is not going to break, and it is going to be way way quicker and easier and not give Ajax any heartburn about the outside cosmetics.

With this thick a hull (so lots of bond surface in the hole) Would that repair really give anyone any "safety" heartburn?
Makes all the sense in the world to me...only thing to worry about might be "sag" but not so much...Heck carefully sticking a hot nail crosswise in hole might work too...as added help to prevent sag...if needed...I forgot to add, I am anal.

 
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Ajax

Super Anarchist
14,791
3,058
Edgewater, MD
I'll try to take a photo of the problem.

I can give you an internal photo, but not external. The boat is in the water.

 

sherpa

Member
173
0
Boston
There is a product called InstaMorph that is easily shaped and is an ideal product for use a backing plate for repairs that require one. It is plastic pellets activated by hot water and can be shaped to plug the inside V and also bend around the interior bulkhead. Stuff can be reactivated with hot water, removed and reused. Lots of other uses on a boat or at home. Cures fairly hard but can be shaped with sandpaper.

I think beveling and laying up from the outside is the best way to do this repair if this is the route you choose to go. I use a dremel and sanding drums to bevel holes this small.

 

BobBill

Super Anarchist
4,611
101
SE Minnesota.
Remember, simple is generally best. I know what I would do, once the boat was dry.

I apologize for the faces, the site translates my strokes, which I do detest.

 
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The generosity of people in SA with free and often knowledgeable advice is amazing... but even on my modest budget my time is usually worth more than my money when it comes to major projects. Faced with a complex fix requiring me to distinguish quick dry epoxy from epoxy that dries quick, tiger hair from horsehair, and horsehair from horseshit... I'd at least get an estimate or two from pros and think hard on it.

As for recommendations,+1 to Osprey in Deale. They do big prestige yachts but manage to price things affordably for those of us with well used older boats. Quality work in my first hand experience, and the best recommmendation is something one of the owners told me while working on my boat - "About that estimate... we got in there and it's going to be cheaper than we'd thought."

 

A guy in the Chesapeake

Super Anarchist
23,965
1,167
Virginia
I mix in the plastic lowball drinking cups, big bag from warehouse club.

You want to avoid anything with lots of internal ridges that impede mixing.

Solo cups are bad.

not the short clear plastic solo cups... you mean the tall colored ones.. I like the idea of holding onto the cups to see the cure

I've gone away from the pumps and weigh everything with a digital scale.. the pumps I just use to fill glass jars with resin and hardener (spererately of course) and pour from there instead of the cans..
Dreads - mind if I ask why? I kinda like the pumps - they make it easy for me working by myself to mix up just enough glop for what I'm working on now, w/out having to worry about quickly spreading out a big batch to avoid having it cook off in the cup. Is there somethin' I should be concerned about that I'm not considering?

 

Ajax

Super Anarchist
14,791
3,058
Edgewater, MD
Some folks have reported faulty pumps, causing them to waste expensive product. I can understand their frustration.

So far, I have not had any problems and I will continue to use the pumps.

 

BobBill

Super Anarchist
4,611
101
SE Minnesota.
Fix it yourself, small picky job that just needs some sort of organization and patience-epoxy takes time to cure and kick to point of adding more layers or glop, really. I think getting the boat out and dry is a greater problem, or it would be for me, anyway; and you have to take it out either way, right?

 

Cement_Shoes

Super Anarchist
6,239
18
A to Z
Some folks have reported faulty pumps, causing them to waste expensive product. I can understand their frustration.

So far, I have not had any problems and I will continue to use the pumps.
In my experience you can usually tell if the pumps have an issue while using them. Slow deliberate full strokes result in the pumps working at their best. On a practical level if you are paying attention to pumping you can guesstimate a partial pump within the margins of error if the pot has more than a couple of pumps of resin and hardener.

If I was building a carbon fiber mast for a rc model I would be more likely to use weights or more accurate volume measurements than the pumps but for general use I haven't had an issue. I do sometimes test their accuracy by measuring but have yet to come by one that is far off the mark. Certainly as accurate as I would be using other means on anything other than the smallest scale.

 

Ishmael

52,316
12,163
Fuctifino
Sometimes the pumps give you way more product than you want, so if you want smaller batches the only good way to do it is to weigh the components. For any larger projects I have had no issues with the pumps unless they were really old and starting to plug up, and you can tell when that's happening.

 

BobBill

Super Anarchist
4,611
101
SE Minnesota.
Pumps might do, but...

Some years back a gent who worked in a firm that made epoxy or polyurethane told me to always mix larger batches...the reaction, as I learned was a simple one: Every-man-a-molecule, looking to hook up with another molecule (Resin:hardener)

And he also told me to use as large a batch as practical but in each case, mix just a wisp more resin than hardener...just a wisp of resin more, when in doubt re 50:50 by volume...and I am not so careful.

Sounds crazy, I know, in 50:50 mix, what happens to left out molecules and so on; are they condemned to a single life? There are some jobs where one cannot afford to have a bad cure...

But ever since, I have never had a failed batch...and I measure using various cups etc.

The guns I figure would not last; cups can be reused and it is easy to pop cured epoxy free from them...just my two cents.

It also might help to look up posts by epoxymoron, vegas and Major Tom, all of whom really know the epoxy game far better than me and whose advice I take to heart with notes and saved links as references. Amazing what the material can do and what it has done to revolutionize various constructions from curved walls and boats to aircraft.

Whatever, keep it simple, you will figure it out.

 
210
0
Further
A simple glove trick... if the job is lengthy enough to require multiple pairs, is to put on two on each hand. You peel off the outer dirty glove but leave on the inner. All the sweat stays inside and you can then pull on a new clean glove over the one still on. If doing big job like lots of tabbing or hull skin it saves a lot of hassle.

 

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