Finn rigging

WCB

Super Anarchist
4,514
903
Park City, UT
Ideas on how to flip over on trailer a slightly overweight Finn?    By yourself?   

Custom fittings that spin on bow/stern and a engine hoist might do it?  No overhead beams for a gantry rig - this is going down in the yard.
 
I would roll slide it off the back of the trailer onto some grass, roll it over, and then slide it back onto the trailer carefully, all if getting another person or two to help isn't possible.  

 

blunderfull

Super Anarchist
I would roll slide it off the back of the trailer onto some grass, roll it over, and then slide it back onto the trailer carefully, all if getting another person or two to help isn't possible.  
Found boat shop with hoist.   Underground Finn network hookup.

”...or two...” been a prob.    Four guys to get off trlr at SDYC.   Ouch.     Will strip down (floorboard) before flipping.

 

blunderfull

Super Anarchist
Boat flipped & bottom seems ok save for a few small divots/cracks around centerline.   Where’s all the water coming from?   Not easy to inspect c/b trunk from bottom, looks like I have to repair hull nicks first then flip boat and feel around deck joint inside of trunk.   If not c/b trunk leaks ( consensus) then where?

Question on old mast ring setup:   neoprene to seal deck opening?   Newer boats have the deck closed off at mast, so that’s a no brainer?
 

New floor:   Vince Valdes/Columbia said he could fabricate a new floor to replace old 3/4” plywood.   Haven’t weighed the wood floor but I would guess it’s north of 2O#.  Will be interesting to see how much weight I can shave off.   Will fix leak(s) then sail.   All’s good then go to the new floor.

Devoti uses carbon fiber on cockpit floor?  I did a floor replacement on a Laser with glass (wgt/glass? -I can’t remember). and it failed in six months.  Combination of me @ 225#, typically weak Laser design and my glassing skills.   I blew thru 3 diff cockpit floors in Lasers.

Modern carbon masts are similar in weight to Needlespar alum sections?     Lost the thread on this  - watched some guys step their carbon mast and it was a lot easier looking than lifting/balancing the Needlespar.  How can c/f mast be =/< Needlespar?

Newp Harbor launch ramp underneath PCH bridge in front of ocean canoe beach:   guy walked a Laser on light trailer down the beach to ramp, lifted the bollard up/out and had easy launch.  Never noticed the handles on bollard near bottom.  Worth noting as this will save a lot of time paddling out to harbor if you’re launchIng at Dunes on a typically light-air morning.

 
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Longman

Member
57
4
Australia
Dacron sails are slow now but, they are still a hella lot fun to shape.  W/o other soft sails on course I was struggling to see how the laminate guys were moving the draft.   I hardly touched the outhaul and had a very ‘fat’ sail most of the day, trying to keep punching thru the short choppy waves in light breeze.   Played traveler lots trying to guess where the sweet spot is.   Played the board a fair bit downwind,  pulled all way up to experiment with how ‘slippery’ you can go thru gybes.  
 
I've been developing my own finn sails over the last couple of years (been sailmaking for 14 years now) and I'm having good results with my dacron mainsail so far.

Sure it's not going to compare with a brand new laminate sail at the Olympic level but when you need the sail to have a good shape for longer than 50 hours or so it makes sense.

The fabric I use in only 0.3oz heavier than the Maxx fabric, and going off the specs sheets for the two fabrics is actually stronger!

The real benefit will be later on in the season when a laminate sail will have shrunk heaps while the dacron one has not.

 

blunderfull

Super Anarchist
I've been developing my own finn sails over the last couple of years (been sailmaking for 14 years now) and I'm having good results with my dacron mainsail so far.

Sure it's not going to compare with a brand new laminate sail at the Olympic level but when you need the sail to have a good shape for longer than 50 hours or so it makes sense.

The fabric I use in only 0.3oz heavier than the Maxx fabric, and going off the specs sheets for the two fabrics is actually stronger!

The real benefit will be later on in the season when a laminate sail will have shrunk heaps while the dacron one has not.
Interesting.   What’s the price on your Dacron?

In daft moments I imagine ‘soft sail/alum stick’ becomes a retro thing.    
 

Then, speaking from recent experience, you get off the line in good shape but,  10-15 boat lengths later you & your well sorted out Dacron are getting a major ass-whooping.   

Finishing a decently sailed race 15-20 mins behind first group is a lesson in Humility.    

Not for everyone.

 
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Longman

Member
57
4
Australia
My radial dacron sails retail for $1850inc GST in Australia. If they're exported you don't have to pay our GST and depending on where you are the exchange rate might be good.

This sail is probably stiffer than a north sail in draft as the fabric is stiffer across the panel, plus as it's a polykote it's stiffer to the hand. I'm using it on a carbon wilke which has had the tip fixed after it snapped. I held my lane in our 15 boat fleet off both starts on the weekend.

I thought if there was a downside to it would be downwind with a softer sail setting better but I haven't noticed any performance hits yet (all the mistakes are mine so far such as going to the wrong end of the finish line and letting boats through.....)

I haven't used this sail in sub 10knts yet but I did make one out of 3.8oz and used it in 8 knots and wasn't slow.

 
Boat flipped & bottom seems ok save for a few small divots/cracks around centerline.   Where’s all the water coming from?   Not easy to inspect c/b trunk from bottom, looks like I have to repair hull nicks first then flip boat and feel around deck joint inside of trunk.   If not c/b trunk leaks ( consensus) then where?
keelband (the strip running from the bow knuckle to the centerboard trunk) is the likely culprit, 5200 the bejezus out of it regardless. (and take off the strips on either side and behind the centerboard, class rules say you don't need them and you're just adding wetted surface)

You can also put a layer of glass around where the CB trunk goes into the floor, wouldn't hurt. Often fun surprises under the gunwale as well. Make sure your autobailers are seated correctly and put vaseline around the edges.

Question on old mast ring setup:   neoprene to seal deck opening?   Newer boats have the deck closed off at mast, so that’s a no brainer?
You're welcome to do it, although the water over the bow is so negligible I wouldn't bother; same reason new boats leave the inspection port open behind the mast. More important that the mast ring and the partners are a close fit so you aren't bleeding free horsepower.

Devoti uses carbon fiber on cockpit floor?  I did a floor replacement on a Laser with glass (wgt/glass? -I can’t remember). and it failed in six months.  Combination of me @ 225#, typically weak Laser design and my glassing skills.   I blew thru 3 diff cockpit floors in Lasers.
Negative; no carbon or aramid allowed in the construction of hull panels. Devoti (et al) make the deck aft of the coaming, the side decks and the entire floor out of one piece and there are lateral stringers to support your weight. I have never put a hoof through the floor of a Devo and I'm heavier than you. However there is sometimes cracking at the joint where the floor meets the bottom of the hull around the centerboard trunk.

New floor:   Vince Valdes/Columbia said he could fabricate a new floor to replace old 3/4” plywood.   Haven’t weighed the wood floor but I would guess it’s north of 2O#.  Will be interesting to see how much weight I can shave off.   Will fix leak(s) then sail.   All’s good then go to the new floor.
Waterlogged floors are a big to-do item on boat diets, see previously linked article re: Marcus' Vanguard.

Modern carbon masts are similar in weight to Needlespar alum sections?     Lost the thread on this  - watched some guys step their carbon mast and it was a lot easier looking than lifting/balancing the Needlespar.  How can c/f mast be =/< Needlespar?
Carbon sticks are supposed to have a lead corrector weight about halfway up to negate the CoG gains from being carbon; 30 years of development has widened that gap and iirc the minimum weight was reduced sometime in this century. Having a balanced spar (and lots of practice Iwo Jima'ing) probably contributed to their ease.

As far as sails go it's a balancing act between cloth weight, longevity, cost, and durability. A new North Technora main is going to be REALLY fast for about 15 hours of UV exposure (per former Team Canada member), you can flog the thing half to death and it'll work up to 40kt, but the shrinkage and weight make it cost inefficient. Contrast this with the white poly Dieball or Karlo Kuret/ONE Sails, which have a fantastic panel weight and hardly shrink at all, but if you take it out over 15kt you're going to put holes in it. At the Club level you can really get a couple years out of your sails, rotating regatta->heavy air regatta->practice and you can stretch out that $1500 bill from really hurting your wallet.

 

BIYC

New member
10
4
So Cal
New floor:   Vince Valdes/Columbia said he could fabricate a new floor to replace old 3/4” plywood.   Haven’t weighed the wood floor but I would guess it’s north of 2O#.  Will be interesting to see how much weight I can shave off.   Will fix leak(s) then sail.   All’s good then go to the new floor.
Don't go so light on your new floor that it flexes much (at all). When standing free pumping you need solid footing.

 

surf nazi

Super Anarchist
Carbon sticks are supposed to have a lead corrector weight about halfway up to negate the CoG gains from being carbon; 30 years of development has widened that gap and iirc the minimum weight was reduced sometime in this century. Having a balanced spar (and lots of practice Iwo Jima'ing) probably contributed to their ease.

As far as sails go it's a balancing act between cloth weight, longevity, cost, and durability. A new North Technora main is going to be REALLY fast for about 15 hours of UV exposure (per former Team Canada member), you can flog the thing half to death and it'll work up to 40kt, but the shrinkage and weight make it cost inefficient. Contrast this with the white poly Dieball or Karlo Kuret/ONE Sails, which have a fantastic panel weight and hardly shrink at all, but if you take it out over 15kt you're going to put holes in it. At the Club level you can really get a couple years out of your sails, rotating regatta->heavy air regatta->practice and you can stretch out that $1500 bill from really hurting your wallet.
Wrong on 2 points. Carbon masts have a corrector weight to bring them up to minimum weight and the placement is determined by the balance point. Finn masts, like the boats have certain balance measurements to make them legal.  Some weights are way low and some  way high and the amount of weight varies. 

The white poly sails aren't going to get holes in them over 15. They just aren't as fast because they don't hold their shape as well as technora in the upper range.  

 

surf nazi

Super Anarchist
Lift by the thwart, a line on each side tied so they can't slip to the center and one line around the front of the centerboard trunk where the deck meets the trunk for balance.
uh, no. Use the hiking padeye or attachment point for the rear two lines. Put the forward line around the front of the trunk UNDER where all the lines attach. Do not place it where deck meets trunk as this is typically not a strong area. Yes, you might get away with it but you might not. The two rear lines ( or just one line attached to either side making a big loop ) should go to just in front of thwart then the forward line adjust to balance the boat fore and aft.  

 

BIYC

New member
10
4
So Cal
uh, no. Use the hiking padeye or attachment point for the rear two lines. Put the forward line around the front of the trunk UNDER where all the lines attach. Do not place it where deck meets trunk as this is typically not a strong area. Yes, you might get away with it but you might not. The two rear lines ( or just one line attached to either side making a big loop ) should go to just in front of thwart then the forward line adjust to balance the boat fore and aft.  
The hiking strap attachment points on Newport Boats Finns were homemade and all over the map in location and strength, some hiking straps were attached to the floorboard and the floorboard screwed to the thin glass hull stringers with small sheet metal screws. The factory thwart was solidly bolted to the side deck with a metal partner under the teak thwart. The original traveler (1.125" stainless tube) went through the side deck, if still in place a good option for lifting. However hoist launching is done it should be done with a big safety margin.

 

blunderfull

Super Anarchist
The hiking strap attachment points on Newport Boats Finns were homemade and all over the map in location and strength, some hiking straps were attached to the floorboard and the floorboard screwed to the thin glass hull stringers with small sheet metal screws. The factory thwart was solidly bolted to the side deck with a metal partner under the teak thwart. The original traveler (1.125" stainless tube) went through the side deck, if still in place a good option for lifting. However hoist launching is done it should be done with a big safety margin.
All good thx.    I’ve got a dolly now too.

 

blunderfull

Super Anarchist
Centerband off & dabbing 5200 in holes.   Leaving c/b bands off.    
 

Bailers look sketchy:

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0D3924E7-7E34-4321-93A1-6CBA3ED593FF.jpeg

 
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Meh I'm not particularly great at splicing to begin with and try to move away from too many doo-dads on my boat, KISS for the big dumb gorilla.

I'm trying to work out exactly what it's for...
Looks like the inhaul, nice to have a consistent repeatable setting and be able to swap the sails out without undoing a half-dozen bowlines

 

lukepiewalker

Anarchist
691
18
Scotia
Meh I'm not particularly great at splicing to begin with and try to move away from too many doo-dads on my boat, KISS for the big dumb gorilla.

Looks like the inhaul, nice to have a consistent repeatable setting and be able to swap the sails out without undoing a half-dozen bowlines
I wasn't in a rapid sail changing position myself, but I guess it wouldn't exist if they didn't feel the need for it.

 

surf nazi

Super Anarchist
Meh I'm not particularly great at splicing to begin with and try to move away from too many doo-dads on my boat, KISS for the big dumb gorilla.

Looks like the inhaul, nice to have a consistent repeatable setting and be able to swap the sails out without undoing a half-dozen bowlines
half-dozen bowlines ? You must have your finn rigged differently than mine . To change the sail, there are only two lines to tie, inhaul and cunningham. Outhaul should be on a shackle ( soft preferred ). To have repeatable settings, simply put a mark on your lines particularly for the outhaul attachment under the deck at the base of the mast . 

There are a number of different ways to rig inhaul and cunningham for quick change but unless you have a coach in a boat with extra sails in order to change on the water, there's really no reason to have them. Personally, I don't like that dogbone idea as it's big and bulky and looks like it could catch on something very easily.  

If you're going to sail a finn, you have to learn how to splice as you really need all your controls to be continuous.   

BTW, finn natttys start thursday at Buccaneer Yacht Club in Mobile. They had to be moved  due to storm damage from Zeta to Pass Christian Yacht Club and that entire area .  

 




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