Finn rigging

half-dozen bowlines ? You must have your finn rigged differently than mine . To change the sail, there are only two lines to tie, inhaul and cunningham. Outhaul should be on a shackle ( soft preferred ). To have repeatable settings, simply put a mark on your lines particularly for the outhaul attachment under the deck at the base of the mast .
Okay, four (Inhaul, Cunno, Outhaul, Outhaul Limiter), perhaps hyperbole. I've end-for-ended all my control lines and I have a slipping eye for the vang lever, I just try to avoid splicing if I can.  

 

blunderfull

Super Anarchist
New floor for the ‘74 Newport?

Taking bids on a one-piece plastic floor.  
 

I’m in Costa Mesa.   Will consider a trip to Dago if it sounds good.

Anyone gone DIY on a Finn?  

 

Shift Happens

New member
17
3
I have a question pertaining to retrofitting vanguard boats also.  Specifically updating from a needlespar to Carbon mast.  It seems from reading that this is a common upgrade to make what is the generally practiced method of doing so?  The obvious solution seems to be making an adapter cup so that the new mast foot will fit into the old cup.  I thought that perhaps the easiest way to ensure a snug fit would be to attempt to find an old needle spar mast that was no longer in working condition and cut the adapter from it since the Vanguard has a mastcup that I assume is meant to fit an aluminum mast, however I have tried to fit several old masts and none fit, in fact there were different diameters among them which is frustrating since i cannot seem to find information online with the original diameters available.  I can measure the cup itself but that leaves me unsure about how much play should be in the there for the mast to correctly rotate.  

Without access to a machine lathe I am having difficulty coming up with the best solution to make and attach the adapter.  Is there any reason that one could not bond with epoxy a fiberglass pipe section to a carbon fiber mast?  If that is a good solution my next question would be how to finish the outside of the adapter to make sure it turns freely.  Would wrapping it with Teflon tape be a good choice?  Also how tight does the tolerance need to be I assume that there should be as little play as possible while still allowing it to turn freely but if ot is not entire snug fitting, how much play would be too much?  
 

if there is not a feasible DIY solution and i have to resort to having it machined, what material is best to use (metal, polymer, etc)?

Any advice is appreciated.

 
Last edited by a moderator:

surf nazi

Super Anarchist
I have a question pertaining to retrofitting vanguard boats also.  Specifically updating from a needlespar to Carbon mast.  It seems from reading that this is a common upgrade to make what is the generally practiced method of doing so?  The obvious solution seems to be making an adapter cup so that the new mast foot will fit into the old cup.  I thought that perhaps the easiest way to ensure a snug fit would be to attempt to find an old needle spar mast that was no longer in working condition and cut the adapter from it since the Vanguard has a mastcup that I assume is meant to fit an aluminum mast, however I have tried to fit several old masts and none fit, in fact there were different diameters among them which is frustrating since i cannot seem to find information online with the original diameters available.  I can measure the cup itself but that leaves me unsure about how much play should be in the there for the mast to correctly rotate.  

Without access to a machine lathe I am having difficulty coming up with the best solution to make and attach the adapter.  Is there any reason that one could not bond with epoxy a fiberglass pipe section to a carbon fiber mast?  If that is a good solution my next question would be how to finish the outside of the adapter to make sure it turns freely.  Would wrapping it with Teflon tape be a good choice?  Also how tight does the tolerance need to be I assume that there should be as little play as possible while still allowing it to turn freely but if ot is not entire snug fitting, how much play would be too much?  
 

if there is not a feasible DIY solution and i have to resort to having it machined, what material is best to use (metal, polymer, etc)?

Any advice is appreciated.
First, there is a rule that there must not be more than 5 mm play total between both the cup and the collar. So you generally want the cup to fit the mast butt with little play but not so tight as to create friction.   There are a few different ways I've seen this done. 1) replace or modify the cup. This is the best since you want to be able to use any carbon wing mast. Depending on how much play you have I've seen people use a piece of pvc pipe to fit in there with the pipe split so that it can fit.  2) modify the mast butt to fit the cup. Yes, you can use some teflon tape but that wears out pretty quickly. I've seen people machine some high density plastic to modify the  butt to fit. Some have wrapped a few layers of fiberglass  on it but again you want to be able use any mast not just your modified one. 

Feel free to pm me with any questions. Best of luck   

 

Shift Happens

New member
17
3
Data I recorded, note that it is approximate because it was down with a tape rather than a caliper.

Mast foot sizes:

Carbon wing mast:  60~62mm

Some of the aluminum masts:  60~62mm

Other aluminum masts with ring:  ~72mm

My mast:  ~55mm

My mast cup:  ~64mm

My mast gooseneck bolt bottom: 78cm

clearly the mast that came with the boat is what needs a repair, I think i misinterpreted that as that carbon and aluminum had a different diameter.

 

ppmm

Member
346
0
Hey, Where can I find information about how to set up the mast butt in a Finn? I thought I remember seen a place where it explained how to measure the distance from the butt to the stern, and the leach tension, and all that stuff...

Thanks!

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hey, Where can I find information about how to set up the mast butt in a Finn? I thought I remember seen a place where it explained how to measure the distance from the butt to the stern, and the leach tension, and all that stuff...

Thanks!
Measure from the back face of the mast to the middle of the CB bolt with an aluminum tape measure, not to the stern unless you're being measured.

Leech tension you should have a wire or vectran line attached to either a spring scale or a load cell, hook that to the outhaul and adjust the outhaul until the length of the leech is the same as your sail (North says 6.07M but Technora shrinks in the sun, WB/Doyle/OneSails are longer/shorter), make sure the boom is on the same side all the way down on the deck. More chocks behind = more bend = tighter leech

https://www.northsails.com/sailing/en/resources/finn-tuning-guide

https://cfd.northsails.com/sailing/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/08123338/NorthSails_Finn_TuningGuide.pdf

 

surf nazi

Super Anarchist
Hey, Where can I find information about how to set up the mast butt in a Finn? I thought I remember seen a place where it explained how to measure the distance from the butt to the stern, and the leach tension, and all that stuff...

Thanks!
Good set up measurement is 36" from back of mast right above the cup to the center of the centerboard pin. If too much helm go forward on the butt to a max of around 37. If no helm, no point, go aft to max of 35". 

Like 1,5 said above, look at the tuning guides for measuring leech tension. Except again as mentioned by 1.5 above, the tuning guides assume a new sail meaning full length leech ( 19'9" ). The leech shrinks pretty fast usually to a max of 3" so you need to measure the leech of your sail and adjust accordingly. You adjust the leech tension by either the chocks at the partner or by moving the butt. 1 mm chock or 1 complete turn on butt adjustment on a devoti equals 1 lb approx. 

Happy to help with any other questions either on the forums or you can pm me.

Good luck !  

 

DRDNA

Anarchist
574
13
Ventucky
New floor for the ‘74 Newport?

Taking bids on a one-piece plastic floor.  
 

I’m in Costa Mesa.   Will consider a trip to Dago if it sounds good.

Anyone gone DIY on a Finn?  
I made 2 double bottoms for Vanguard Finns long ago.  They had 4 bailers, you take out the outermost ones on each side.  Then you make a pattern for the double bottom.  Then you add epoxy fairing compound to the stringers to make them wider on top for better bonding area.  The cockpit area will be somewhat asymmetrical, so you make a full pattern.  You cut out and glass the double bottom.  I've used PVC core( Kleg or divyl or air cell).  Then you reshape the double bottom because your pattern sucked.  Finally, you glue it in with lots of weights or a vacuum bag.  Then, you glass around all edges, finish and sail.  In the day, Vanguard would sell you a double bottom like they used in the series of boats from about  US1060 to US1067.  The newer boats- like olympic boats  in 83 and 84 they made are totally different dimensions in the cockpit.  If your bailers leak, replace them before all this.  I replaced my bailer gaskets every couple years.

 
I made 2 double bottoms for Vanguard Finns long ago.  They had 4 bailers, you take out the outermost ones on each side.  Then you make a pattern for the double bottom.  Then you add epoxy fairing compound to the stringers to make them wider on top for better bonding area.  The cockpit area will be somewhat asymmetrical, so you make a full pattern.  You cut out and glass the double bottom.  I've used PVC core( Kleg or divyl or air cell).  Then you reshape the double bottom because your pattern sucked.  Finally, you glue it in with lots of weights or a vacuum bag.  Then, you glass around all edges, finish and sail.  In the day, Vanguard would sell you a double bottom like they used in the series of boats from about  US1060 to US1067.  The newer boats- like olympic boats  in 83 and 84 they made are totally different dimensions in the cockpit.  If your bailers leak, replace them before all this.  I replaced my bailer gaskets every couple years.
I used to own 1066.  It had a double bottom with two Elvstrom bailers.  Great boat, though I eventually traded it for my Lemieux, just to buy something newer, though the Vanguard was plenty fast.

 

Latest posts




Top