Flying Tiger 13.8

[DA MAN]

Nice!
What are the thoughts on the power plant?

J

ARK OAR AND PADDLE COMPANY.

8FT SWEEPS! h34r:

 

[locomotive]

Thats good, I dunno if people are gonna want grinders and a wheel. You can feel the boat so much better through a tiller. Besides, less parts to malfunction with a tiller. Been on a Farr 40 in SF bay that busted the steering cable outside the Golden Gate by Mile Rock....not fun. And as for the grinders...c'mon. Boat is to small for them. Frozenhawaiian is right, the TP52s are using tillers, Rage had a tiller, I've even seen a custom 65 footer (older R/P design looked like) with a tilller. Maybe its just that I am not a fan of wheels haha.

Well stated:

A lot of what you see will be optional items; the designs reflect the boat with all the options.

 

[bslevin87]

Well stated:
A lot of what you see will be optional items; the designs reflect the boat with all the options.

thats a great way to make a boat that will be fast and cheap and still allow people the specialty items they want. This could open the door for the age old issue of more money=faster boat, and how will it be a one design if there will be so many possible performance changing options.

 

[mvining1]

Current decision is to make the stock boat with a tiller. Wheel/wheels will be options as will the grinder.

Simpler is cheaper, lighter, better. Option is good idea. Those that want it and don't care about price, weight will take the option.

Use Harken or Ronstan and clear coat the spar standard also. Or at least as an option. Not many new 40'+ buyers that are do-it-yourselfers that I know of even in the price range of a Chinese boat.

If the draft is over 7'-6" you will kill the bulk of Great Lakes sales. Better would be even less. Outstanding would be 7'-0"

Or an optional "working" keel lift that reduces 9' draft to 6' for use while approaching the dock and at the dock. The Farr 36 attempted this but I don't think any were built before Carroll went belly up. (Not just a system for hauling.)

 

[us7070]

If the draft is over 7'-6" you will kill the bulk of Great Lakes sales. Better would be even less. Outstanding would be 7'-0"
Or an optional "working" keel lift that reduces 9' draft to 6' for use while approaching the dock and at the dock. The Farr 36 attempted this but I don't think any were built before Carroll went belly up. (Not just a system for hauling.)

a 45ft race boat that draws 7ft, or even 7.5ft, isn't going to be very competitive.

lifting keel would be a good solution, but might be expensive.

 

[bslevin87]

just another option, this could have real potential too. The STP 65 use a lifting keel for docking

 

[Pavook]

some people have mentioned the need to be able to readily attach an emergency tiller or spare emergency rudder during offshore racing.why not a flat transom and just out the 2 mounts for an emergency tiller on the transom?

why not a removable rudder in a barrel design. if the first rudder breaks, you can carry a spare. Like to old henderson rudder. Kernan is using a modification of the concept for the SC37. can attach either a tiller or a wheel to it. perfect solution, and no more expensive to produce. with the added benefit of less weight and removable rudder.

If the draft is over 7'-6" you will kill the bulk of Great Lakes sales. Better would be even less. Outstanding would be 7'-0"Or an optional "working" keel lift that reduces 9' draft to 6' for use while approaching the dock and at the dock. The Farr 36 attempted this but I don't think any were built before Carroll went belly up. (Not just a system for hauling.)

a 43 footer with 7 foot draft is a cruiser. so make it 8.5 - 9'.

cost, weight and complexity of making a lifting keel system workable while underway is absurd. would probably increase cost of boat by 25%-40%. a lifting keel would be good, but expensive. (However, you could use blocks and purchase with a battery powered truck winch if you wnat to eliminate the complexity and cost of a hydraulic system.)

Keep it a deeper keel, but just make the keel easy to remove. fin-into-slot and bolted on is something to consider. removal is as simple as undoing bolts and lifting boat (in slings) off of keel.

 

[mvining1]

a 43 footer with 7 foot draft is a cruiser. so make it 8.5 - 9'. cost, weight and complexity of making a lifting keel system workable while underway is absurd. would probably increase cost of boat by 25%-40%. a lifting keel would be good, but expensive. (However, you could use blocks and purchase with a battery powered truck winch if you wnat to eliminate the complexity and cost of a hydraulic system.)

Keep it a deeper keel, but just make the keel easy to remove. fin-into-slot and bolted on is something to consider. removal is as simple as undoing bolts and lifting boat (in slings) off of keel.

I agree deeper keels are better and love upwind machines with deep keels. I also live in my real fresh water world.

So I have to have tunnel vision and ask for something that we can sail on in the Great Lakes. I frankly can't give a shit about how the boat does in Oz. The fact remains that there are few to no harbors with consistently more than 9' of water in the Great Lakes. That's the reason why Colt 45 was know as the shoal draft GL70. (And won the Mac races several times in that configuration.) I can't tell you how many transports I made or helped make down the Western shore of Lake Huron that were straight shots without stops because no harbor had water deep enough.

There is pent up demand for a bigger than a 10 meter race boat that can be sailed all round here. An easily removable keel doesn't help me in my 8'-6" deep dock that is in a harbor accessed across a 7'-6" deep sand bar.

A block and tackle is acceptable. Agreed hydraulics's are too expensive and complex. The SR33 Henderson designed was almost close to what was needed. I heard that Henderson raced it and raised the keel during downwinds. We never did that. It was a little undersized for use at the dock every time, but worked well for intermittent use like getting on the trailer. Used an electric winch and a light simple wire tackle system.

Oh and a grounding shouldn't cause catastrophic damage either. They are a fact of life round here.

 

[evertm]

Current decision is to make the stock boat with a tiller. Wheel/wheels will be options as will the grinder.

Bob,

How about a nice broad aft sections with a hint of a hard chine and plenty of volume in the nose? My wish is for this boat to be a modern-day sled that can crank big numbers with a Asymmetric Kite on Transpac-type races and keep up with the SC50s.

 

[evertm]

Bob,
How about a nice broad aft sections with a hint of a hard chine and plenty of volume in the nose? My wish is for this boat to be a modern-day sled that can crank big numbers with a Asymmetric Kite on Transpac-type races and keep up with the SC50s.

Like this one, only a bit longer...? Rig also looks very modern and agressive.

 

[rob 240r]

Another FT to chime in on.....
Every element of this boat should be SIMPLIFIED.

No grinder please.

No wheel please.

Single backstay please. Whatever ingenious configuration to provide the biggest main with a single back would be greatly appreciated.

The world needs a fast simple boat this size that provides pure sailing pleasure at a relatively reasonable cost. Simplification also eases the need for maintenance and long term maintenance/upkeep.

Nice lines Bob.

you got my vote here .

bob , this is the way to go :]

 

[Bob Perry]

I really like the look of that boat. What is it? That approach may not fit the market we are aiming for. But establishing the market is not my job.

 

[Peacefrog]

Bob it is a Soto 40 being built in ARG. I have a meeting with the builder and a prospective owner this coming weekend. I can tell you that it is a pretty sweet ride from what I have seen.

http://www.sotoacebal.com/d63.htm

Sorry not to take thunder away from your boats. I really like what I have seen in the FT's.

 

[evertm]

Bob it is a Soto 40 being built in ARG. I have a meeting with the builder and a prospective owner this coming weekend. I can tell you that it is a pretty sweet ride from what I have seen.
http://www.sotoacebal.com/d63.htm

Sorry not to take thunder away from your boats. I really like what I have seen in the FT's.

Bob,

There was an article about this boat (Soto 40) in last month's Seahorse magazine, but it appears to be targeted more at the inshore IRC crowd (e.g. no coach roof). But there is a lot to like (just love the 505-style gunwale!), and the price seems reasonable too. Still, is it not worth exploring if your design (which I like in concept) would translate to something a bit more contemporary and "edgy"? After all, if the FT 13.8 is going to be a stripped-out racer (albeit a simple, lower cost one), will it not add to the appeal if it looks more like a little mini STP 65 or something?

 

[PHM]

I think that's a good point about inshore vs. offshore. I'm perfectly content with my FT10 for inshore/coastal and OD, and wouldn't want a bigger boat with more crew and more expensive sails for inshore/coastal/OD. If I ever step up to a 13.8 in the future, it will be because I want to do offshore stuff. So, a 13.8 inshore day racer wouldn't do it for me. It should be able to do PV, Cabo, transpac and similar races with minimal modifications. I agree with all those who have said keeping it simple, both on deck and down below, is important.

 

[JungleJim]

Bump- any updates?

 

[locomotive]

The FT13.8 project is very much alive. Sadly we have been applying our efforts to getting the FT7.5 to the market. We will start building January 1st with a target delivery of the first two boats September 2009.

The deck layout has been simplified in oreder to reduce cost of the initial product and offer the market a product at a level unheard of for this type of offshore racer. We hope you'll love her.

 

[Nomenclature]

That is a very good looking boat.

I like the window treatment on this one!

You guys are on a roll.

 

[StayinStrewn]

so is it now tiller only?...looks clean...backstay hydraulic or blocks?

 

[locomotive]

so is it now tiller only?...looks clean...backstay hydraulic or blocks?

We will offer the dual helm as an option. Allow the class to decide on whether to add penalty weights if you go with the standard version.

By going tiller we are able to reduce the price drastically not to mention weight.