Foiling Monohull - what would it look like?

[jaysper]

Pegasus Bay, might work well with the legendary nor'wester, no? 

Nah. Wellington works much better IMO. From a purely objective stand point you understand. 

 

[dogwatch]

And nothing trickled down into the foiling multi world???

Some of us sail foiling Multis..... I guess we are not real world sailors.

Nothing but arrogance!

Here we go. A roadmap for the process.

 

[SeaGul]

Point is - there will be no slow motion match-racing in foiling monos either - it will be just the same as with multis - just more out of real world boat and a little slower.

 

[Costro]

Who wants slow motion match racing? High speed match racing is far more relevant in 2017/2021. 

The difference will be the sailors will be sailing instead of pumping oil. Trimming sails, hoisting/dropping sails. Crew work that real people can identify with. 

I enjoyed the super fast cats, don't get me wrong. But having Olympic level sailing talent reduced to power generators was an embarrassment for the sport. 

 

[maxmini]

Who wants slow motion match racing? High speed match racing is far more relevant in 2017/2021. 

The difference will be the sailors will be sailing instead of pumping oil. Trimming sails, hoisting/dropping sails. Crew work that real people can identify with. 

I enjoyed the super fast cats, don't get me wrong. But having Olympic level sailing talent reduced to power generators was an embarrassment for the sport. 

Its too soon to tell but it does look as if they are bringing the AC format back to what was once the core audience that of actual sailors. 

Going after the X-Games crowd didn't pan out so after a few editions in boats that sailors can relate to in a more direct way they may get back a good bit of what they lost over the past few AC's. It would be nice to be able actually find someone to talk about the Cup at a actual yacht club for a change  

 

[Groucho Marx]

If it (the thing) is going to be around 50-60 foot it will have to be wide for the foils and stability to work. How wide? Multihull wide. Like 25-30 feet. Or if narrower, then outriggers with foils hanging off the ends. And latest mini 6.5's bow. To stop arsing nose over down.This will be a monster monohull that no one has ever seen before? More extreme than the latest 6.5s by a long way. All good. But the old brigade clamouring for their old ballasted shitters are not going to be happy?

 

[hoom]

If they can do it without (much) lead & a motor/battery pack I guess thats OK.

Still would like to see relatively conventional multis though.

 

[SeaGul]

Who wants slow motion match racing? High speed match racing is far more relevant in 2017/2021. 

The difference will be the sailors will be sailing instead of pumping oil. Trimming sails, hoisting/dropping sails. Crew work that real people can identify with. 

I enjoyed the super fast cats, don't get me wrong. But having Olympic level sailing talent reduced to power generators was an embarrassment for the sport. 

Trimming sail with a power distributed winch that is - same as on a multi. Hoist, dropping sail - change sails - really ?? That is in slow-motion sailing - deplacement boats - never will happend on a foiling mono. 

 

[SeaGul]

Its too soon to tell but it does look as if they are bringing the AC format back to what was once the core audience that of actual sailors. 

Going after the X-Games crowd didn't pan out so after a few editions in boats that sailors can relate to in a more direct way they may get back a good bit of what they lost over the past few AC's. It would be nice to be able actually find someone to talk about the Cup at a actual yacht club for a change  

"actual sailors" - what is that?  ... reminds me of the right-winger definition of "real-americans" as pickup-drivers with guns.

 

[Tornado_ALIVE]

The difference will be the sailors will be sailing instead of pumping oil. Trimming sails, hoisting/dropping sails. Crew work that real people can identify with. 

I enjoyed the super fast cats, don't get me wrong. But having Olympic level sailing talent reduced to power generators was an embarrassment for the sport. 

Foiling Multis can be designed to operate without stored power just the same as monos. And guess what,..... they actually trim sails on multihulls as well.

Do you enjoy watching a team of grinders grinding away and sitting on the rail?

 

[Tornado_ALIVE]

Its too soon to tell but it does look as if they are bringing the AC format back to what was once the core audience that of actual sailors. 

Going after the X-Games crowd didn't pan out so after a few editions in boats that sailors can relate to in a more direct way they may get back a good bit of what they lost over the past few AC's. It would be nice to be able actually find someone to talk about the Cup at a actual yacht club for a change  

You are hanging out at the wrong (possibly old mans) yacht club.  Plenty of AC talk at other clubs.

There is also more to sailing than lead slugs.  Plenty of high performance Foiling and non foiling mono and multi sailors all who would have appreciated the boats in the last AC.

 

[Tornado_ALIVE]

Trimming sails, hoisting/dropping sails. Crew work that real people can identify with. 

Well blow me a way..... it can be done on Multis

 

[Qman]

i really hope it works but cant figure out how you can deal with the fundamental conflict between needing weight for righting moment and the lift/drag associated with foiling in a meaningful way.  A mono hull needs a canter for righting moment.   which is something like 9 tones of lead. 

 

[Flippin Out]

Hopefully it's like nothing we've ever seen before. At this same point before AC35 who would have guessed what the ETNZ boat would look like  ? Just be patient and enjoy the ride. It'll be fun. 

 

[SeaGul]

Mono - if thats the only thing we know - and they are "designing the rule" in the future - they can make a rule that need lead or other ballast (water, people) - by limiting the number of foils and to restrict the type of foils - and moving flaps etc.

If the rule is mono - max 60ft - power must be produced while sailing - then it could be fun. 

 

[PYC]

Maybe it will look like blue arrow

 

[MischiefBDA]

Mono - if thats the only thing we know - and they are "designing the rule" in the future - they can make a rule that need lead or other ballast (water, people) - by limiting the number of foils and to restrict the type of foils - and moving flaps etc.

If the rule is mono - max 60ft - power must be produced while sailing - then it could be fun. 

.... maybe 12 ft longer 

 

[GauchoGreg]

I asked several ETNZ team members after the win what the next boat would look like. They pretty much came out and said it would be a foiling mono. Fully foiling for that matter. Minimum 60ft, soft sails with at least 10 sailors actually sailing, not cycloring. I asked the question, how could you tack/gybe and stay on the foils or even stay fast if you had to swing a canting keel around the place??? 

The answer surprised me. "If we're smart, we could do it without the lead!"

ie. No canting keel!

What would this look like?...

Maybe in ten years we will all need double wide births for our triangle shaped monos? Who knows...

This is what we are going to see I think. And it is going to surprise the sailing world. After all, they want to push the sport forward, and by doing it in a mono, it might actually trickle down to the rest of us real world sailors. 

Given the designers working on this concept and some of their recent work, I have total faith that it is going to be an amazing class. 

I have a feeling it's going to be a monster! Can't wait to geek out on the details with all you shmucks!

I'm not hopeful at this point that we will have an event that will end up being worth a damn if they stick to the foiling mono idea, particularly if they base it off the Volvo/IMOCA concept of foiling mono.... they will suck for match racing and be a massive drop in performance and compelling viewing.  And since the sailing world seems bent on going one-design, lately, we may not see the development of a lot of new solutions to problems that will trickle down.  I would not be surprised if we end up seeing fewer challengers, and possibly major changes to the protocol mid-way, as they realize the racing is going to look like relative crap going around the cans. 

They would probably be better off screwing the foiling, if they are determined to go with monos, and go with non-adjustable foils/keel and an open box rule, and see what kind of awesome planing boats (giant skiffs) might develop, instead, with minimal need to have people committed to hamster power.  Again, I'm not optimistic. 

 

[GauchoGreg]

That would be dumb. I thought proper sail boats were boats that used a sail and the wind as opposed to a motor and diesel? Hence the sport and hobby - Sailing.

Therefore, how many hulls your sail boat has should be irrelevant.

What's funny is that the mono-purists seem to think it is OK so long as it has 1 hull, even if they have to resort to all kinds of appendages and/or a huge beam... basically a multi in concept but the one big hull (and, preferably, lead) makes it OK.  Basically, a wanna-be multi.  Super.

 

[2Newts]

Color me skeptical. 

I'm open to all ideas they may have and willing to be impressed, but some sort of ungainly 20 foot wide triangle shaped mono with wicked appendages, just to say it's a mono, seems ridiculous. And going back to narrow monos with fixed keels would be a bore. And relying on canting keels seems to defeat the possibility of fast-tacking match racing. 

Well, I'm not a naval architect. Just enjoy sailing and technology. So let's see what the experts come up with. 

Oh, and I dislike the idea of one-design for the AC. Set some parameters and let the designers design.