Food, fixes and notes from the casual coastal sailor.

Kris Cringle

Kris Cringle

Super Anarchist
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Ah fall, harvest moon and all that. I cut a bag of firewood this afternoon for a long weekend onboard. It takes 4 or 5 splits of hardwood and 5 minutes on a bandsaw.

Disrespecting the hood of my beloved AFT aside, I was pleased to see it take less time to pick a small bushel of pears. I caught one bouncing off the hood.

IMG_4878.jpeg
 
F

Fah Kiew Tu

Curmudgeon, First Rank
10,401
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Tasmania, Australia
accnick said:
Unfortunately, that would not necessarily stop several boatyards I have been in from trying to do the job.
Click to expand...

I watched a (relatively) young woman pull a Gardner 4LW engine from her recently purchased ex-fishing boat last week. She had help and advice, but it was her responsibility and she got it done.

If you've ever seen a 4LW engine you'd know it's not like pulling a Yanmar 3GM or similar. Think literal tonnes of engine.

Now she's replacing the gearbox as the old one's final reduction drive had shit the bed big-time. Just about got it done and looking good.

So - you *can* do shit like this if you want to and have to.

Incidentally she hired a crane company to come down to the yard and do the engine pull - same crane firm I used to get my boat from the workshop to the marina. They're good to work with and know what they're doing.

FKT
 
A

accnick

Super Anarchist
3,520
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Fah Kiew Tu said:
I watched a (relatively) young woman pull a Gardner 4LW engine from her recently purchased ex-fishing boat last week. She had help and advice, but it was her responsibility and she got it done.

If you've ever seen a 4LW engine you'd know it's not like pulling a Yanmar 3GM or similar. Think literal tonnes of engine.

Now she's replacing the gearbox as the old one's final reduction drive had shit the bed big-time. Just about got it done and looking good.

So - you *can* do shit like this if you want to and have to.

Incidentally she hired a crane company to come down to the yard and do the engine pull - same crane firm I used to get my boat from the workshop to the marina. They're good to work with and know what they're doing.

FKT
Click to expand...
I've replaced or installed a couple of engines in my boats over the years, but these were in the 40-50hp range, and weighed no more than about 450 pounds (about 205 kg). Right now, I am looking at an engine and gearbox that weigh just about a ton. The gearbox alone weighs about the same as a Perkins 4-108. To be clear, the yard is going to do this grunt work, but I am doing a lot of the logistical sorting out, since I'm the one who will be putting the boat back together.

Unlike in my sailboats, you can't reach down the companionway hatch with a crane and pluck the engine out. It has to come out vertically, horizontally through the aft bulkhead, through a door that is way too small. We are looking at how much can be removed from the old engine to reduce bulk and weight, but I really hate to start taking a new engine apart to get it in, and may end up cutting open the aft bulkhead where the door is to fit it through.

The intact new engine fits vertically through the engine room hatch with something approaching zero width clearance. Length is no problem, since there are multiple continuous engine room hatches that lift out. The old engine has to be partially disassembled --aftercooler, alternators, other bits--to fit through that same hatch. There may be a few bits on the new engine I can remove to make it a little narrower if necessary

In the boats we designed at Seaton Yachts, we almost always put in soft patches in the decks over the engine room to make this job easier, since those engines were typically up to about 17 liters displacement, but that horse has left the barn in this case.

In my case, the engine has to be lifted vertically about 4' to clear the engine room hatches, then moved aft horizontally about 15' through the bulkhead and into the cockpit, from with it can be lifted with a crane or our big forklift.

One obvious part of this will be to separate the gearbox from the engine, but that has its own logistical challenges, since the aft engine mounts are actually attached to the gearbox rather than the engine. (This is a fairly common arrangement on larger engines with big, heavy iron gearboxes.)

I admire anyone who takes on a Gardner of any size. They are works of art, even if they are archaic. The terms "bulletproof" and "indestructible" come to mind. Any engine where the head-to-block is designed as a machine fit with no gasket is pretty special.
 
Rasputin22

Rasputin22

Rasputin22
14,094
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accnick said:
I've replaced or installed a couple of engines in my boats over the years, but these were in the 40-50hp range, and weighed no more than about 450 pounds (about 205 kg). Right now, I am looking at an engine and gearbox that weigh just about a ton. The gearbox alone weighs about the same as a Perkins 4-108. To be clear, the yard is going to do this grunt work, but I am doing a lot of the logistical sorting out, since I'm the one who will be putting the boat back together.

Unlike in my sailboats, you can't reach down the companionway hatch with a crane and pluck the engine out. It has to come out vertically, horizontally through the aft bulkhead, through a door that is way too small. We are looking at how much can be removed from the old engine to reduce bulk and weight, but I really hate to start taking a new engine apart to get it in, and may end up cutting open the aft bulkhead where the door is to fit it through.

The intact new engine fits vertically through the engine room hatch with something approaching zero width clearance. Length is no problem, since there are multiple continuous engine room hatches that lift out. The old engine has to be partially disassembled --aftercooler, alternators, other bits--to fit through that same hatch. There may be a few bits on the new engine I can remove to make it a little narrower if necessary

In the boats we designed at Seaton Yachts, we almost always put in soft patches in the decks over the engine room to make this job easier, since those engines were typically up to about 17 liters displacement, but that horse has left the barn in this case.

In my case, the engine has to be lifted vertically about 4' to clear the engine room hatches, then moved aft horizontally about 15' through the bulkhead and into the cockpit, from with it can be lifted with a crane or our big forklift.

One obvious part of this will be to separate the gearbox from the engine, but that has its own logistical challenges, since the aft engine mounts are actually attached to the gearbox rather than the engine. (This is a fairly common arrangement on larger engines with big, heavy iron gearboxes.)

I admire anyone who takes on a Gardner of any size. They are works of art, even if they are archaic. The terms "bulletproof" and "indestructible" come to mind. Any engine where the head-to-block is designed as a machine fit with no gasket is pretty special.
Click to expand...
I worked for an outfit that specialized in big Sportfishermen. Occasionally we would cut a hole big enough to pull a big diesel out through the side of the hull rather than mess up a fancy interior salon. We would then glass the cutout back in place and heavily glass the seam (mostly on the inside) and then fair the incision line on the outside and repaint. I have photos somewhere.

1664563815546.png
 
Cruisin Loser

Cruisin Loser

Super Anarchist
6,930
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West Texas, Taos, New England
Rasputin22 said:
I worked for an outfit that specialized in big Sportfishermen. Occasionally we would cut a hole big enough to pull a big diesel out through the side of the hull rather than mess up a fancy interior salon. We would then glass the cutout back in place and heavily glass the seam (mostly on the inside) and then fair the incision line on the outside and repaint. I have photos somewhere.

View attachment 543931
Click to expand...
A friend (Merchant Marine Academy grad) did that on his own boat. Came out great.
 
F

Fah Kiew Tu

Curmudgeon, First Rank
10,401
3,487
Tasmania, Australia
Rasputin22 said:
I worked for an outfit that specialized in big Sportfishermen. Occasionally we would cut a hole big enough to pull a big diesel out through the side of the hull rather than mess up a fancy interior salon. We would then glass the cutout back in place and heavily glass the seam (mostly on the inside) and then fair the incision line on the outside and repaint. I have photos somewhere.

View attachment 543931
Click to expand...

Yeah we've done that on 40m steel fishing trawlers. Cut out a big hole, extract engine, do what's needed then weld it all back up again. Generally there's a 'soft patch' intended for this, unlike on f/g boats, so structurally easier. And nobody cares at all about visible weld beads on fishing boats...

I keep thinking about building another boat (because I can and I get bored), it'd be different to my sailboat and getting the engine in/out *relatively* easily would be one of the key design requirements. I know I can pull the engine on my sailboat, I put it in there after all, but it isn't as straightforward as I'd like.

FKT
 
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