Food, fixes and notes from the casual coastal sailor.

[Ajax]

I envy you having a nice shop and the boat a few hundred yards away from your house. That's still my idea of heaven.

I fall into this category. I really, really need to get control of my garage and install a pellet or wood stove. I'll never have KC's skill with wood though...

 

[Kris Cringle]

I fall into this category. I really, really need to get control of my garage and install a pellet or wood stove. I'll never have KC's skill with wood though...

My 'shop' is a compact 2 car garage, due to setbacks and zoning. And it serves as the household store room as well. But it is well-insulated and bright.

I have a 20K K1 power vented heater that brings it up to 68 in minutes and maintains that for about a pint of K1 per 10 hours. A small pellet stove would be perfect.

A whole boat shed would be epic to work in but the heating would need to be substantial. I have a friend with one big enough to fit his 37'er in. It's heated enough to apply coatings (50's)

He also has a shop off it that can be closed off from the main shed. That can be heated to shirt sleeve working. that's where he does most of the work.

 

[accnick]

My 'shop' is a compact 2 car garage, due to setbacks and zoning. And it serves as the household store room as well. But it is well-insulated and bright.

I have a 20K K1 power vented heater that brings it up to 68 in minutes and maintains that for about a pint of K1 per 10 hours. A small pellet stove would be perfect.

A whole boat shed would be epic to work in but the heating would need to be substantial. I have a friend with one big enough to fit his 37'er in. It's heated enough to apply coatings (50's)

He also has a shop off it that can be closed off from the main shed. That can be heated to shirt sleeve working. that's where he does most of the work.

If you're well organized, you can make a nice shop out of a two-car garage, provided you don't want to keep cars in it.

My shop in Newport was a six-car garage behind my house. One bay was actually used as a garage for my 911 and motorcycle, until I needed more shop room. The car and the bike had to go, and they did. Building a boat ate up all my time, anyway, and I needed the money for more boat stuff, as you do..

 

[Israel Hands]

My 'shop' is a compact 2 car garage, due to setbacks and zoning. And it serves as the household store room as well. But it is well-insulated and bright.

I have a 20K K1 power vented heater that brings it up to 68 in minutes and maintains that for about a pint of K1 per 10 hours. A small pellet stove would be perfect.

Is there any safe option if you don't want to vent a heater? My shop is our two-car garage. It probably averages 40-45 degrees overnight unheated in the winter, getting morning and midday sun through windows. I'd like to be able to apply poly coats to pieces in evenings after work. It also has an open stairwell to an unfinished room above. I was thinking to maybe just run a big kerosene floor heater while I'm working, and see if that would be sufficient.

 

[accnick]

Is there any safe option if you don't want to vent a heater? My shop is our two-car garage. It probably averages 40-45 degrees overnight unheated in the winter, getting morning and midday sun through windows. I'd like to be able to apply poly coats to pieces in evenings after work. It also has an open stairwell to an unfinished room above. I was thinking to maybe just run a big kerosene floor heater while I'm working, and see if that would be sufficient.

Unvented kerosene heaters mean you need a fair amount of ventilation to stay alive, so be careful with that one.

 

[Israel Hands]

Unvented kerosene heaters mean you need a fair amount of ventilation to stay alive, so be careful with that one.

Yes, that's why I bagged the idea last year. I think it would be okay - the garage is uninsulated and the roof ridge upstairs is vented. (Coastal North Carolina winters aren't that cold.) And I'd only run the heater probably 2 hours at a time. But part of me doesn't want to mess with a kerosene heater again.

 

[Kris Cringle]

Is there any safe option if you don't want to vent a heater? My shop is our two-car garage. It probably averages 40-45 degrees overnight unheated in the winter, getting morning and midday sun through windows. I'd like to be able to apply poly coats to pieces in evenings after work. It also has an open stairwell to an unfinished room above. I was thinking to maybe just run a big kerosene floor heater while I'm working, and see if that would be sufficient

As well as the CO danger, don't those add a lot of moisture? Heat is tricky.

I think the volume of the space in a shop you want to heat is the challenge. And you want that heat fast, with little waiting.

If you could close off that staircase, preferably in the shop, your climate control potential goes way up. You have a small heat differential to deal with (NC), but you need a warmish space for applying coatings.

I'm presently having a couple of 6K radiant electric heaters installed in an impossible-to-heat (old barn) space. I wonder if those would be useful in a shop to have quick heat on a working/painting area?

This could be ideal temperature control; masonry enclosed shop located in Italy.

 

[Israel Hands]

I think electric heaters is the way I need to go too. And you are right about the moisture from kerosene heaters.

 

[accnick]

I used rugged little 1500 watt electric forced-air space heaters called "milkhouse" heaters in my shop and on the boat while I was building it in Newport. These are about the max you can run off a dedicated 15-amp circuit, and they throw a lot of directed heat, which makes them good for gluing or applying coatings in smaller places.

The backstory on those is that they were designed to throw directed heat while you were milking a cow, so pretty effective at short range.

You have to be willing to pay for electricity, of course, but at 10-12 cents a kw/hour in the US, they are reasonably cost-effective. My shop was totally uninsulated. The main "working" part of the shop (as opposed to similar areas primarily used for storage, and never heated) was just about 500 sq ft.

These were not used for general heating, but were primarily directed to shop areas I might be working in, like the big workbench.

On the boat, one of these placed in the deckhouse and directed into the lower areas of the boat did a great job down to around 20 F outside, after I got the deckhouse built. Before I built that, I had about an 8'x 8' gaping hole in the deck that made things a bit chilly in the winter.

I had a substantial polytarp-covered electrical conduit frame with a dormer and door over the boat at that stage, so did not heat anything on deck. On a sunny day, the sun on the blue tarp heated things on deck surprisingly well.

I also had two Aladdin kero space heaters left over from living on my old yawl years before. These were only used in the shop, and pretty rarely due to their relatively high maintenance--wicks to clean, kerosene to pour, and they got covered with sawdust if machinery was running.

 

[Kris Cringle]

I used rugged little 1500 watt electric forced-air space heaters called "milkhouse" heaters in my shop and on the boat while I was building it in Newport. These are about the max you can run off a dedicated 15-amp circuit, and they throw a lot of directed heat, which makes them good for gluing or applying coatings in smaller places.

The backstory on those is that they were designed to throw directed heat while you were milking a cow, so pretty effective at short range.

You have to be willing to pay for electricity, of course, but at 10-12 cents a kw/hour in the US, they are reasonably cost-effective. My shop was totally uninsulated. The main "working" part of the shop (as opposed to similar areas primarily used for storage, and never heated) was just about 500 sq ft.

These were not used for general heating, but were primarily directed to shop areas I might be working in, like the big workbench.

On the boat, one of these placed in the deckhouse and directed into the lower areas of the boat did a great job down to around 20 F outside, after I got the deckhouse built. Before I built that, I had about an 8'x 8' gaping hole in the deck that made things a bit chilly in the winter.

I had a substantial polytarp-covered electrical conduit frame with a dormer and door over the boat at that stage, so did not heat anything on deck. On a sunny day, the sun on the blue tarp heated things on deck surprisingly well.

I also had two Aladdin kero space heaters left over from living on my old yawl years before. These were only used in the shop, and pretty rarely due to their relatively high maintenance--wicks to clean, kerosene to pour, and they got covered with sawdust if machinery was running.

I also use one of those 'milk house' heaters on the boat. 1500 watts is the max for a 110V plug in. I mislabeled the heaters we're installing. They are 6,000watt heaters. They will be running on a dedicated 220 circuit. Placed above head height - but not too far away - they should have a substantial affect on a body in the 'light' cast below.

Incidentally, my last purchase of K1 at 7.50(+-), calculated to our present cost of a KWH (.22/KWH!!!), makes it a BTU for BTU - one-to-one wash, when compared to an electric heater. I thought I'd never see that day. Re-think heat.

 

[accnick]

I also use one of those 'milk house' heaters on the boat. 1500 watts is the max for a 110V plug in. I mislabeled the heaters we're installing. They are 6,000watt heaters. They will be running on a dedicated 220 circuit. Placed above head height - but not too far away - they should have a substantial affect on a body in the 'light' cast below.

Incidentally, my last purchase of K1 at 7.50(+-), calculated to our present cost of a KWH (.22/KWH!!!), makes it a BTU for BTU - one-to-one wash, when compared to an electric heater. I thought I'd never see that day. Re-think heat.

Your rates are pretty high. My total cost last month, including taxes, fees, and surcharges, was $116 for 829 kw/h. That comes down to about $.14 kw/hr.

We are in the shoulder season. Heat would never run this time of year, and air conditioning is running about half the time compared to high summer.

Still a bargain compared to much of the US. FP&L (Florida Power & Light) is the 800-pound gorilla in the room in Florida's electricity market, but they do a good job. They have built, and continue to build, massive solar fields, as well as the inevitable couple of nuclear reactors and natural gas power plants.

When they bought out our local city-owned electrical utility a few years ago, our rates dropped by about 30%.

It's hard to be believe K1 is $7.50. I remember when..... oh, nevermind.

 

[Kris Cringle]

.14c is a bargain. We used about the same as you. Our KWH cost has nearly doubled in 10 years.

Of late, it's the rising cost of natural gas(russian war on Ukraine) that is jacking it up. We're behind on renewables, good to see Fla. doing well there.

 

[kinardly]

I think our rates start at $0.39 and go up from there. Thing is we never had to use AC along the coast but now we have many more summer days in the 90s.

 

[Kris Cringle]

The before:

The 'fix':

Hardly noticeable,...

But useful enough to be worth the while.

Plus in moving the stove back an inch and a half (it hurt my eyes before), I learned about the limits of the stove's swing. It hit the bottom port tack at about 40 degrees. I can't recall that ever being a problem, so moving it to port to hit the back at about 40 degrees on starboard, was logical.

What's your swing limit? Do you even know? And is it equal port or starboard?

Then the ABYC breaker; shut off behind the stove got me thinking. Where else are you going to put it unless you want to add a bunch of joints (also an ABYC breaker) for another location?

The 30-year-old stove without thermocouples is already an ABYC breaker, and so is my wood fireplace so the hell with ABYC.

I had to relocate the shut off so raised it a bit, and aft, so it's easier to see and reach. That also got me thinking about the flex line between the stove and the shut-off. I'm going to replace that as well and want that to be flexible as the line has an effect of the gimbal action.

Left to do here is finish scraping off the Caution: CNG,.... and replace with Caution: Big KaBOOM.

 

[Elegua]

You need some of those AvE safety stickers.

 

[Ajax]

On small boats, inches matter. I'm a big fan of using space efficiently and good ergonomics.

 

[Elegua]

Good ergonomics and boat in the same sentence? Yu kray kray

 

[accnick]

The before:
View attachment 559803

The 'fix':

View attachment 559804

Hardly noticeable,...

View attachment 559805

But useful enough to be worth the while.

Plus in moving the stove back an inch and a half (it hurt my eyes before), I learned about the limits of the stove's swing. It hit the bottom port tack at about 40 degrees. I can't recall that ever being a problem, so moving it to port to hit the back at about 40 degrees on starboard, was logical.

What's your swing limit? Do you even know? And is it equal port or starboard?

Then the ABYC breaker; shut off behind the stove got me thinking. Where else are you going to put it unless you want to add a bunch of joints (also an ABYC breaker) for another location?

The 30-year-old stove without thermocouples is already an ABYC breaker, and so is my wood fireplace so the hell with ABYC.

I had to relocate the shut off so raised it a bit, and aft, so it's easier to see and reach. That also got me thinking about the flex line between the stove and the shut-off. I'm going to replace that as well and want that to be flexible as the line has an effect of the gimbal action.

Left to do here is finish scraping off the Caution: CNG,.... and replace with Caution: Big KaBOOM.

The breaker panel for the propane solenoid is the square black panel on the white bulkhead above the sink on my current boat. You don't have to reach over the stove to shut it off. The supply line is a continuous length of hose from the regulator to the stove, a run of about 16-18'. This is conceptually similar to what I did on my last sailboat.

The only joints in the line are inside the propane box in the cockpit, and of course the connection at the stove.

This is a fixed, non-gimballing stove, since it is a powerboat. With a gimballed stove, you just need to make sure you have enough hose for the full range of swing, without the chance of the hose chafing or binding on anything.

 

[Kris Cringle]

The breaker panel for the propane solenoid is the square black panel on the white bulkhead above the sink on my current boat. You don't have to reach over the stove to shut it off. The supply line is a continuous length of hose from the regulator to the stove, a run of about 16-18'. This is conceptually similar to what I did on my last sailboat.

The only joints in the line are inside the propane box in the cockpit, and of course the connection at the stove.

This is a fixed, non-gimballing stove, since it is a powerboat. With a gimballed stove, you just need to make sure you have enough hose for the full range of swing, without the chance of the hose chafing or binding on anything.

View attachment 559811

Very nice working galley!

I too have a shut-off panel for the tank solenoid. I'm keeping the shut off mostly for it's elbow configuration. We need the 90-degree turn at the bulkhead behind the stove to supply; straight down at the bulkhead - straight down at the stove, for the 2' hose between to function smoothly with the gimbaled stove.

In reality, that last flare fitting is in an enlarged hole in the rear bulkhead so it is easy to test.

I'm thinking I'll add a propane sniffer of some kind, and one at home which has a restaurant range with no thermocouples.

 

[Ajax]

You absolutely need an LPG sniffer, especially if your converted stove has no thermocouples.

My galley range is configured the same as @accnick with the solenoid shutoff nearby but not reaching across the stove. Whoever installed the galley used short doughnuts of thick engine water hose as anti-chafes where the LPG hose passes through partitions and bulkheads.

My boat was upgraded from pressurized alcohol to LPG by a PO when it was in New England. I talked to him on the phone about it.