"Free Boats" and Sailing Aging Out

[BrianMif]

Will sailing die in this generation?

Two friends have offered to give me their boats since Jan 1, 2023. I'm currently boat less and crewing for a guy doing Beer Can races. I sold my boat of 13 years ownership about 5 years ago, because I was buried under too many family (kids in college) and work responsibilities and no budget left for marina fees and properly maintaining the boat. I also have some property and a semi-empty barn and I think those are the primary thoughts motivating my friends to give me their boats (both are in Marinas and are not tailorable in that their beams are too wide without permits and giant trailers). I'm 59. Most of my boating friends are older than me (65-75), so it's natural that they are winding down and simplifying their lives..

I feel like along with so many other "boomer" hobbies, millennials and younger generations have been lost to the world of sailing, and boating in general.

IMHO - why I think sailing will be dead soon
1) Lack of expendable income for marina/maintenance/insurance and any loans on boat purchase
2) Fewer DIY boatyards.. almost completely extinct.. I can only think of two in entire S.F. Bay Area
3) Very large inventory of heavily neglected boats
4) "Working Man" yacht clubs almost extinct because of so few "Working Men" (I.e. middle class)
5) Lastly, the KILLER.... Lack of interest, like so many activities and hobbies over the last 100 years, "Hands-On" stuff can't possibly hit the dopamine highs so consistently and effortlessly as playing games with the smartphone or computers (as I observe.. not a gaming guy).


What do you think is the way to turn this around?

 

[floater]

haul one to your barn?

 

[nolatom]

One boat for one owner means many "slip queens" and fewer new-ish or mid-range sailors to own and maintain one. I see this locally in New Orleans, where we get to sail year-round.

Long-term, an oversupply of boomer and gen-x era boats means a tougher market to sell boats in.

You're right, Item 5 is the killer. You have to invest a lot more learning, time, and money to compete with a zillion comuputer screens who give instant something-to-do "activity".

We may have to wait out a generation (or more?) for boat supply to go down and get landfilled, and boredom with electronic entertainment, makes a future generation more interested in hands-on pursuits like sailing once again?

Meantime, I see community sailing centers as the place where sailing can self-survive until a new generation of sailors, and new boats, arrive. So I'm hanging out at one of them, and teaching. It's also a place where "previously-untapped potential sailors"* can get into sailing without a lot of money up-front.


*(not just white people)

 

[BrianMif]

Meantime, I see community sailing centers as the place where sailing can self-survive until a new generation of sailors, and new boats, arrive. So I'm hanging out at one of them, and teaching. It's also a place where "previously-untapped potential sailors"* can get into sailing without a lot of money up-front.


*(not just white people)

Curious about those centers. How are they structured and what are the costs like? A small boat livery has just opened up nearby (we are on one of the tidal sloughs that enter S.F. Bay). The boats are all human powered at this point and kinda high in price ($70/hour for a rowboat). I certainly would like to help ATTRACT people to boating.. I was in Sea Scouts as a young teen and it really got me hooked on sailing (and Wooden Boats). The remaining Sea Scout units today are almost ALL female members (which is exactly opposite what I experienced in the late 70's). I'm glad for young women joining one of the most fun organizations you can at that age.. but where the hell are all the boys??? (imagine dark family rooms with snack food wrappers lying all around and pallid zit-encrusted boys stuck to screens... )..

 

[Autonomous]

Keel boats are clearly falling out of favor. For a long time I thought my retirement boat would be slip kept.
I sat down and did a brutally honest and comprehensive SOR which led to a surprising conclusion.
The return on a slip kept boat just did not justify itself.
In spite of the amazingly low price of, for example, a used Ranger 33 I had a 17' trailerable sail-n-oar boat built.
No systems to be maintained, no bottom paint to leach poison, no slip fees, diver, haulouts, etc. for the win.
It lives in the shop next to the house. Any repairs or fiddling around require no driving to and fro.
In addition to local waters, I tow it behind my class B RV to some nice places. Lake Pend Oreille, the Salish Sea, etc. are all within a days drive.
It may not be the future of sailing but it has advantages.

 

[NeedAClew]

Saw this. Maybe helicopter parents are killing off interest?

Grooming sailing's next generation? >> Scuttlebutt Sailing News

Tucker Thompson, whose roots in sailing extend from racing Sunfish to campaigning for the America's Cup, parlayed those experiences into a career as a TV

www.sailingscuttlebutt.com

 

[nolatom]

Curious about those centers. How are they structured and what are the costs like? A small boat livery has just opened up nearby (we are on one of the tidal sloughs that enter S.F. Bay). The boats are all human powered at this point and kinda high in price ($70/hour for a rowboat). I certainly would like to help ATTRACT people to boating.. I was in Sea Scouts as a young teen and it really got me hooked on sailing (and Wooden Boats). The remaining Sea Scout units today are almost ALL female members (which is exactly opposite what I experienced in the late 70's). I'm glad for young women joining one of the most fun organizations you can at that age.. but where the hell are all the boys??? (imagine dark family rooms with snack food wrappers lying all around and pallid zit-encrusted boys stuck to screens... )..

Here you go, it has many and generous donors, and thanks to them, membership is $350 per year individual, $550 family, for a 10-month year, March through December. Nice-sailing 20' Freedom keelboat sloops, 420s too, and a Capri-26 cruiser.

Community Sailing New Orleans - Youth, Adult, & College Sailing Programs

Eliminating the economic and physical obstacles to sailing for all in the greater New Orleans area. Schedule a class or workshop today!

nolacommunitysailing.org

 

[BrightAyes]

Saw this. Maybe helicopter parents are killing off interest?

Grooming sailing's next generation? >> Scuttlebutt Sailing News

Tucker Thompson, whose roots in sailing extend from racing Sunfish to campaigning for the America's Cup, parlayed those experiences into a career as a TV

www.sailingscuttlebutt.com

Did the title say "Grooming" and include the name Tucker in it? Sounds accurate.

 

[climenuts]

For some context I'm a millennial who's owned a keelboat for 5 years, I've been a member at a 'working man' club in Vancouver for about 3 years, I'm now (hopefully) joining a club with "royal" in its name, my partner and I have actively raced, we're very active at our club events, and we're on the boat 80-100 days/year.

I'll give my opinion on the state of things based on my experience and discussions with people my age. I do not intend on passing blame or anything... just my opinion.

A huge amount of the recreational boating infrastructure in the Vancouver area is crumbling. Breakwaters built in the 60s and intended for a 25-year lifespan are failing, marina docks built in the 70s-90s are falling apart, shower and laundry facilities are generally unmaintained, and it's becoming incredibly difficult to get water at public marina's outside of the lower mainland/north shore. This infrastructure was built mainly by Silent Generation folks, enjoyed in the 70s, 80s, and 90s by the masses, and largely unmaintained to keep prices minimal.

Now, in the 20s moorage fees are skyrocketing, and club initiation and membership fees are increasing sharply because the deferred maintenance cost of all of this infrastructure is insurmountable. Instead of long-time members of these clubs and other owners of this infrastructure saving for these capital expenditures they've let the infrastructure fail and are leaving the situation behind for someone else.

Is it really so hard to understand why new blood doesn't want to come in and use dilapidated infrastructure while funding its replacement? People will shop around for things that have been thoughtfully preserved for the future to invest their hard earned cash into or seek a bargain deal.

 

[NaptimeAgain]

I sold the sailboat 4 years ago after many years of not sailing. Kept on my lift so it wasn't a budget strain and was fairly easy to keep it clean there. Just didn't feel like spending the time sailing or rounding up crew so I could subsidize their fun when I found them. Kept the powerboat but don't use it much. But it doesn't eat up a day to use it. Just tired of having one more thing to manage. Most of the boats I see in slips locally don't seem to get out much. I know more "retired' sailors than active ones.

 

[crashtack]

How bout I save everyone the effort of reading this thread

 

[BrianMif]

Saw this. Maybe helicopter parents are killing off interest?

Grooming sailing's next generation? >> Scuttlebutt Sailing News

Tucker Thompson, whose roots in sailing extend from racing Sunfish to campaigning for the America's Cup, parlayed those experiences into a career as a TV

www.sailingscuttlebutt.com

As a 14 year old Sea Scout in 1979, my parents' interactions with what I was doing was limited to rides to and from Aquatic Park at Fishermans Wharf (our Base), and (mom)helping me learn to iron my woolen dress blues, and (dad) overhauling the two davits used to haul our 3ton Whaleboats up on the pier since their lower bearings were submerged almost every high tide (dad was a Master Machinist, and a very generous guy when it came to volunteering his time). Other than that, they had no idea what our activities where.. We had little "Adult" supervision as our skipper was less a leader, but more an elder Sea Scout. We raised hell on the bay, flashing B.A.s to yacht racers, tying up in Sausalito and somehow buying beer for lunch. We'd go OUT into the shit when everyone else was going home.. most of out winter sailing were essentially weekend "hell cruises". Soaking wet for 6 hours at a time.. and we LOVED it. "Sailing" to me is good times, goofing off, pulling together (literally.. our 30' Whaleboats were oar powered when there was no wind). My Dad gave me the gift of pointing me toward Sea Scouts as "they were looking for crew" and that was the end of the "pressure". The freedom to make decisions.. do dangerous stuff on our own (rarely wore lifevests), handle lines with heavy and powerful things at the other end etc.. First day instruction.. "get in the smallboat with (two other guys) and go out the mooring and bring the whaleboat back to the dock... scratch the paintjob and you are toast".... Was never asked if I could swim.. was never told to wear a lifevest.. etc.. we figured it out.

 

[Goodvibes]

All non-digital sports that require significant investment in equipment are doomed.

 

[BrianMif]

All non-digital sports that require significant investment in equipment are doomed.

Boat rentals would seem then to be the solution.. it's a generation already acclimated to AirBnB.. not much different to rent a boat

 

[dukeofted]

For some context I'm a millennial who's owned a keelboat for 5 years, I've been a member at a 'working man' club in Vancouver for about 3 years, I'm now (hopefully) joining a club with "royal" in its name, my partner and I have actively raced, we're very active at our club events, and we're on the boat 80-100 days/year.

I'll give my opinion on the state of things based on my experience and discussions with people my age. I do not intend on passing blame or anything... just my opinion.

A huge amount of the recreational boating infrastructure in the Vancouver area is crumbling. Breakwaters built in the 60s and intended for a 25-year lifespan are failing, marina docks built in the 70s-90s are falling apart, shower and laundry facilities are generally unmaintained, and it's becoming incredibly difficult to get water at public marina's outside of the lower mainland/north shore. This infrastructure was built mainly by Silent Generation folks, enjoyed in the 70s, 80s, and 90s by the masses, and largely unmaintained to keep prices minimal.

Now, in the 20s moorage fees are skyrocketing, and club initiation and membership fees are increasing sharply because the deferred maintenance cost of all of this infrastructure is insurmountable. Instead of long-time members of these clubs and other owners of this infrastructure saving for these capital expenditures they've let the infrastructure fail and are leaving the situation behind for someone else.

Is it really so hard to understand why new blood doesn't want to come in and use dilapidated infrastructure while funding its replacement? People will shop around for things that have been thoughtfully preserved for the future to invest their hard earned cash into or seek a bargain deal.

You have perfectly summed up western society as a whole. Everything is broken and the young are being called ungrateful for not picking up the tab without complaint.

 

[Santanasailor]

Final line, if its hard, its dead.

Every activity that is hard to learn or even worse, requires fairly heavy physical activity, (such as competitive water skiing and now water skiing in general) is pretty much dead or dying.

We had a bunch of power boats out on the lake this weekend. We see this as a good thing. (ever live by a dead or forgotten lake, property values reflect the neglected lake homes and camps)

But, almost every power craft had a tube of sorts behind it. Climb in and ride, No sailboats (until today when this 74 year old and his 73 year old sweetheart took our MC Scow out for a nice sail.).

 

[floater]

I see community sailing centers as the place where sailing can self-survive

the local sailing school / dinghy clubs are alive and well - boats out sailing every day.

 

[Goodvibes]

We had a bunch of power boats out on the lake this weekend. We see this as a good thing. (ever live by a dead or forgotten lake, property values reflect the neglected lake homes and camps)

Worked with a guy from the Eastern US about 20 years ago. He showed me his beautiful house on a beautiful lake. I asked him about fishing from the backyard? He said there were no fish there, acid rain from the factories west of him had done that.

Has that been fixed now?

 

[Kurtz]

Will sailing die in this generation?

Two friends have offered to give me their boats since Jan 1, 2023. I'm currently boat less and crewing for a guy doing Beer Can races. I sold my boat of 13 years ownership about 5 years ago, because I was buried under too many family (kids in college) and work responsibilities and no budget left for marina fees and properly maintaining the boat. I also have some property and a semi-empty barn and I think those are the primary thoughts motivating my friends to give me their boats (both are in Marinas and are not tailorable in that their beams are too wide without permits and giant trailers). I'm 59. Most of my boating friends are older than me (65-75), so it's natural that they are winding down and simplifying their lives..

I feel like along with so many other "boomer" hobbies, millennials and younger generations have been lost to the world of sailing, and boating in general.

IMHO - why I think sailing will be dead soon
1) Lack of expendable income for marina/maintenance/insurance and any loans on boat purchase
2) Fewer DIY boatyards.. almost completely extinct.. I can only think of two in entire S.F. Bay Area
3) Very large inventory of heavily neglected boats
4) "Working Man" yacht clubs almost extinct because of so few "Working Men" (I.e. middle class)
5) Lastly, the KILLER.... Lack of interest, like so many activities and hobbies over the last 100 years, "Hands-On" stuff can't possibly hit the dopamine highs so consistently and effortlessly as playing games with the smartphone or computers (as I observe.. not a gaming guy).


What do you think is the way to turn this around?

Are there any sources of proper adventure left in the world, apart from sailing / cruising?

This aspect should always hold some appeal.

 

[Israel Hands]

Worked with a guy from the Eastern US about 20 years ago. He showed me his beautiful house on a beautiful lake. I asked him about fishing from the backyard? He said there were no fish there, acid rain from the factories west of him had done that.

Has that been fixed now?

Yes. And that must’ve been 40-50 years ago.