From The Guardian newspaper: Stranded at sea: amateur female sailors speak of sexual abuse by captains they met online

[Goodvibes]

First, we (women) have all the power in the gender imbalance.

Second, we have experience and training in how to fend off sexual advances since freshman year at college.

Gee hey, I guess that's why the women in the OP got raped.

Worked with a guy who dragged me along to his dojo, in my late twenties. He was a first Dan Black Belt, pretty big and fit guy. It was all good until he heard a noise in his house late one night, got up and was confronted in the half dark with guy sporting what he thought was an iron bar, used to open his door.

Anyway he froze, the guy made one swing and a miss and ran back out the door. The homeowner was devastated that all his training came to naught. He never went back to the dojo.

EDIT: A lesser man would have bullshitted about how he "kicked his ass", but he was a real man and told it like it was.

Be careful with your bravado, it does not always workout how you think.

 

[LB 15]

Gee hey, I guess that's why the women in the OP got raped.

Worked with a guy who dragged me along to his dojo, in my late twenties. He was a first Dan Black Belt, pretty big and fit guy. It was all good until he heard a noise in his house late one night, got up and was confronted in the half dark with guy sporting what he thought was an iron bar, used to open his door.

Anyway he froze, the guy made one swing and a miss and ran back out the door. The homeowner was devastated that all his training came to naught. He never went back to the dojo.

EDIT: A lesser man would have bullshitted about how he "kicked his ass", but he was a real man and told it like it was.

Be careful with your bravado, it does not always workout how you think.

Fuck I love this place.

 

[kent_island_sailor]

In 10 years on SA, I have never previously mentioned that I am a gun owner and I have never joined any of the gun threads on GA or PA. So this will be my first and last comment on the topic. I own a hand gun, a secure gun safe, a rifle that I used many years ago in competition, and a pair of very beautiful side by side shotguns.

The shotguns were a present to me from my father in law on an anniversary. It was an incredibly touching gift. We can joke that I deserved them because I am a much better shot than his son but for anyone who knows much about the Brits and their guns, they will understand how moved I was by the message behind the gesture.

The shotguns are working guns. I don't use the rifle at all and should probably sell it. The handgun is occasional fun at the range. I dont know enough about international laws about vessels and guns but I think I would take it if we went cruising somewhere with risk of unsafe encounters. Other than that if there was a break -in, I would first call the police. Inform the intruder that I have called the police and explain in a polite and calm manner that I am armed and likely a much better shot than he is.

I don't misconstrue the intent and purpose of the 2nd amendment . I don't see any purpose for keeping assault weapons at home. It is a personal view not a political view. I could say more but I'm not going to. I do believe we should have the right to own guns. I believe there should be controls because guns are dangerous and should be treated with respect . Cars are dangerous. We have a driving test before we are allowed to drive a car, your identity is checked before you get a license, and if you drive drunk or dangerously, you lose the license. Please dont interpret these as political comments.


You should probably take that to PA or GA. I am not a redneck or a fuckwit. I dont get off on any glorification.

So back on topic.....how do women take care of themselves if they want the same opportunities for adventure as men?

I think we are entitled to the same adventures. I especially think that young women are entitled to the same adventures as young men. So one piece of advice is to learn how to take care of yourself. Men have sooooo many vulnerable spots!.

This is straying into victim-blaming. Well you should have just shot the skipper - problem solved - WTF is wrong with you.
I cannot conceive of any reason to have a gun on a boat in the USA related to defense, if you need one you REALLY put some effort into sailing to the wrong place!
Out in the wider world, you will run into huge hassles in many places with customs and almost never will you be allowed to keep your gun with you. If you hide it and get caught, you'll probably be wishing you just shot yourself soon enough

 

[MR.CLEAN]

Yep. What ever spin you put on it, you are a gun nut. If you are going to support the 2A then you really should pony up and give some of your Doctor money to the NRA. They are doing all the hevey lifting for you gun nuts, particularly in diverting attention away when children are executed every week in your country.

I have a shotgun, a rifle, and a handgun. Am I a gun nut? Is every gun owner a gun nut?

 

[EYESAILOR]

This is straying into victim-blaming. Well you should have just shot the skipper - problem solved - WTF is wrong with you.

That was not the intent of the conversation. I am sorry if you read it that way. We were not talking about victims . At that stage in the conversation, we were talking abut measures that young men and young women could take to protect themselves when traveling , especially when hitchhiking a ride on a boat.

One poster in effect suggested that women faced so much higher a risk that young women should not do it. ....and were sorta asking for trouble.

I pushed back because I think young women can protect themselves. It needs some planning but in some ways we are better prepared than men.

I cannot conceive of any reason to have a gun on a boat in the USA related to defense, if you need one you REALLY put some effort into sailing to the wrong place!

Agree with that

Out in the wider world, you will run into huge hassles in many places with customs and almost never will you be allowed to keep your gun with you. If you hide it and get caught, you'll probably be wishing you just shot yourself soon enough

As I wrote in my post I don't know about those limitations. However, yes in all honesty, as I read about the assaults on cruising yachts at anchorage, and piracy at sea, there are parts of the world where I would like my hand gun on board. I just dont know how viable it is under international law.

 

[Whinging Pom]

I have a shotgun, a rifle, and a handgun. Am I a gun nut? Is every gun owner a gun nut?

What are you going to do with the handgun? Apart from putting holes in someone.

 

[kent_island_sailor]

What are you going to do with the handgun? Apart from putting holes in someone.

Only thing I do with them is shoot at paper targets. Accurate pistol shooting is hard.

 

[MR.CLEAN]

What are you going to do with the handgun? Apart from putting holes in someone.

When I lived in the city and used to handle large sums of cash, I had a need for it. Now it sits in a safe.

 

[kent_island_sailor]

That was not the intent of the conversation. I am sorry if you read it that way. We were not talking about victims . At that stage in the conversation, we were talking abut measures that young men and young women could take to protect themselves when traveling , especially when hitchhiking a ride on a boat.

One poster in effect suggested that women faced so much higher a risk that young women should not do it. ....and were sorta asking for trouble.

I pushed back because I think young women can protect themselves. It needs some planning but in some ways we are better prepared than men.

Agree with that

As I wrote in my post I don't know about those limitations. However, yes in all honesty, as I read about the assaults on cruising yachts at anchorage, and piracy at sea, there are parts of the world where I would like my hand gun on board. I just dont know how viable it is under international law.

International travel with guns is a large PITA. In Bermuda you give them to customs and get them back when leaving. In places where you don't come and go from the same port, this presents an obvious issue.
Then you have the entire massive shit-storm of actually killing someone out in BFE. Best advice is probably be long gone by the time they figure out it was you that shot the police chief's cousin

Back to the original issue, I don't have any moral reservations whatsoever about a victim of sexual assault killing their attacker. Practically speaking, unless you have something like a video of Skipper Bob chasing you with a knife, 2 people leaving one coming back is going to take a LOT of explaining. One poor guy some years ago, I think in Trinidad, ended up in jail for murder because his girlfriend/crew fell overboard and he couldn't prove he DIDN'T kill her.
* third world SOP, you sit in jail while they figure out what happened, which can take longer than your life expectancy in the ShitHole Hotel.

 

[Zonker]

assaults on cruising yachts at anchorage, and piracy at sea, there are parts of the world where I would like my hand gun on board. I just dont know how viable it is under international law.

It's always the American boats that have guns. The bad guys know this so they rob the American yacht of its guns, usually when you are not there.

Most countries have very strict prohibitions on bringing guns into their country. Even Canada. Please show up at the northern border with your pistol and see how you are treated. Other countries will either seize them or lock them up at the police station for your stay. Sort of sucks because you might not get it back or can't travel to other parts of the country easily because your gun is in one port and upwind from other parts where you want to visit.

Here's a suggestion: don't go to places that are known spots for piracy. This includes Red Sea/Straits of Hormuz, western Africa (Gulf of Guinea), the eastern part of Borneo and southern Phillipines, lots of parts of PNG, and near Cabo Gracias de Dios (eastern part of Nicaragua). Avoid some Caribbean Islands and Venezula for the same reason. These are all known trouble spots and have been for years. The world is a big place. Pick other spots to visit!

2 stories:
When anchored in the "Flats" anchorage near Colon Panama I heard a noise outside. Popped my head out the forward hatch and saw a dark figure crouched on the side deck. I yelled top of my lungs "GET OFF MY BOAT". The dark figure flinched and yelled "It's me, it's me Ramsay!" My good friend Ramsay had joined us as a linehandler and at 3 am my brain forgot he was aboard. He had just pee'd over the side and was sitting down to enjoy the night breeze.


Friends of ours from Texas had a lot of guns aboard. They literally slept with a gun under their pillow. Middle of the night they hear a big crash. They think they are being boarded. Ken pops up the foredeck hatch with a shotgun, safety off. (They had also just finished reading a scary book about a cruiser being attacked in another part of the Caribbean). Another boat had dragged anchor and had banged their bow pulpit and people were climbing on their boat to unstuck themselves.

Tell me if guns aboard made that second situation safer for all concerned.

Most bad things that happen to cruisers are 90% theft when people are off their boat or asleep. Forceful boardings or assaults by a determined criminal is way, way down on the list of things I'd worry about.

I also worry more about walking in parts of some big US cities but that's a different discussion!

 

[fufkin]

When I lived in the city and used to handle large sums of cash, I had a need for it. Now it sits in a safe.

Where did you carry the gun? Holster or bag. Would you have been able to draw first if someone came up from behind, stuck a barrel in your kidney and said‘Money or your life’? To the best of your knowledge, did anyone know your schedule?

Does your advocated weapons training cover any of these scenarios or would more self defence training be required beyond how to load, unload, clean and shoot paper?

 

[LB 15]

I have a shotgun, a rifle, and a handgun. Am I a gun nut? Is every gun owner a gun nut?

If someone owns a gun for a specific purpose (say a farmer or a hunter or a target shooter) then they are not 'gun nuts'. If someone owns multiple guns because they like guns then they are a gun nut. So yeah you are a gun nut. But I understand that everyone needs a hobby. I collect fishing floats I find on my travels. I am a 'fishing float nut'. But I am a responsible fishing float owner and I only collect them to protect my family.

 

[MR.CLEAN]

If someone owns a gun for a specific purpose (say a farmer or a hunter or a target shooter) then they are not 'gun nuts'. If someone owns multiple guns because they like guns then they are a gun nut. So yeah you are a gun nut. But I understand that everyone needs a hobby. I collect fishing floats I find on my travels. I am a 'fishing float nut'. But I am a responsible fishing float owner and I only collect them to protect my family.

So, a handgun for defense, a shotgun for defense and birds, and a rifle for deer and turkey. Is this acceptable to you or does this constitute nutterism? How many guns does one need to be a collector?

Equally important question: I have 7 axes. I only use 3 of them, the other four are either too pretty or too old to use. Am I an axe nut? Disclaimer: I do not use the axes to protect my family.

 

[Student_Driver]

I must be a USB cable nut because I have about seven thousand in accumulated over the years and now living in a diaspora ranging across a span of: drawers, bags, shelves, boxes cars and boats.... I have yet to use one to defend or attack. I imagine I could make a garrote.

If lunacy can be measured simply by quantity of collected/owned objects then, I may be also guilty of being a nut with respect to

1) Flat head screwdrivers
2) Measuring cups
3) AAA batteries
4) Backpacks
5) HiFi gear
6) Dogs

 

[MR.CLEAN]

Where did you carry the gun? Holster or bag.

Waistband

Would you have been able to draw first if someone came up from behind, stuck a barrel in your kidney and said‘Money or your life’?

When I was carrying lots of cash or lots of product, no one was coming up from behind. Awareness is first and most important training item, they'll teach you that if you get trained.

To the best of your knowledge, did anyone know your schedule?

Are you asking if I notified others when I was carrying large amounts of cash or product? Stupid fucking question.

Does your advocated weapons training cover any of these scenarios or would more self defence training be required beyond how to load, unload, clean and shoot paper?

Nonsense question. I have no 'advanced weapons training.' I have a lifetime of shooting things and critters and maintaining the shooty tools. They aren't that complicated. Fucking weirdos out there have created a narrative that defending oneself with a handgun requires SpecOps boot camp. Hint: Practicing to defend oneself with their hands is a fuck ton more complicated than being capable of defending with a pistol.

 

[FlyingCircus2]

If someone owns a gun for a specific purpose (say a farmer or a hunter or a target shooter) then they are not 'gun nuts'. If someone owns multiple guns because they like guns then they are a gun nut. So yeah you are a gun nut. But I understand that everyone needs a hobby. I collect fishing floats I find on my travels. I am a 'fishing float nut'. But I am a responsible fishing float owner and I only collect them to protect my family.

*A gun nut who won't get raped.

 

[Rasputin22]

I was doing a boat delivery from Antigua to the Tampa area and we had a great stop in Jamaica. No dinghy for the delivery boat so we needed to get provisions for the rest of the trip in Negril. We had arranged for a boat boy on the beach to use his grandad's fishing boat for the short ride to the big market in the West end of the beach. The kid was about 12 or so and we were surprised when he showed up and his Grandad looked like Methuselah and the boat was pretty rough but serviceable. The price had settled at $20 US paid once the tour was done. A hour at the most.

Our skipper had rented a moped to drive 10 miles or so to the nearest customs and immigration office to clear us out and the two girls we had for crew and I were going to do the grocery run and we figures that both chores would end about the same time so the shoreboat would get our skipper back on board and we would be on our way.

The old fisherman and his son came to pick up our skipper and a couple of girls we had met at HEDONISM the night before and when the fishing boat went to the beach and they all got off I was surprised to see two young dudes come out of the bush and get into the fishing boat and head back to our anchored boat. The dudes looked like they were 20 somethings and I could see a hustle in the making. Both the guy immediately jumped onboard with us and ignored me telling them to stay in the shoreboat. They gave me a story about this stretch of beach as 'their turf' when I questioned why they were ever there. I said that we had hired the old fisherman and his grandson and not them and we didn't need any further help. They claimed that they were 'contractors' and the old man and the boat were working for them! The whole time the toughs were checking out the helm and rigging and one was even giving a lot of attention to the anchor windlass and I got a real bad feeling about their intent.

I locked up the boat and told the girls to get in the shoreboat and the dudes still had not gotten off our boat by the time I had things secured. They dawdled around flipping switched at the helm and I had a hell of a time getting them back in the shore boat. They then turned their attentions to the two girls and I just urged the old fisherman to get us to the dock near the market about a half mile away. When we got to the store I invited the 'contractors' to stay with the fishing boat while we shopped and took the kid with up to help haul our goods. Those bastards jumped out and stayed with the girls like they were on a date! Once in the store they kept picking out items and putting in our carts and were just big pains in the ass. They didn't help carry anything from the store across the street to the old guy waiting in the fishing skiff. Just jumped aboard and as the bags came across the gunnel they picked out the snacks and fruit they had chosen and started eating even though we had paid for it all!

Back at our boat they leapt over the lifelines and continued scoping out the boat and its gear. One guy even sat in the helms chair and propped up his feet on the wheel and start acting like he owned the place. I confronted him after opening the companionway so the girls and the beach kid could send the bags straight below. I asked him to get out of the helmschair and either help or get back in the fishing skiff. His buddy came up behind me a pulled out a butterfly knife and went into his act with the knife. I had seen the Kung Fu movies with those funny double handled knives spinning and flipping around and never thought much about it but when someone is going through the routine right in your face is another thing. No sign of our skipper on the beach and I knew I still had a $20 US bill in my pocket to I pulled one out and gave to the Jefe contractor as paid in full but the bastard just smiled and tore the bill and threw it on the deck and told me he wanted $100 US!!

I had briefed the girls back at the store on what to do if the situation with the gang bangers reached the point that it did and I gave a little sign to them. They were already down in the galley and I heard the nav station locker open and they had grabbed the 12 gauge and the 50mm flare guns and were locked and loaded and aimed at our unwelcome guests like a couple of Charlie's Angels. Under cover from the girls I went and picked up the halves of the Andrew Jackson and walked to the where the old fisherman was and handed him one half of the bill and then threw the other half in the boat and told the dudes to get in and that was their pay. I confirmed the original deal we had made with the fisherman and the kid at $100 Jamaican (which was $20 US at that time) and the toughs started cussing the old man, the kid and me. They did get in the fishing boat and the girls kept them under aim the whole time. The 12 gauge was pretty intimidating but the 50mm the skippers GF was holding was frightening...

As the outboard motor on the skiff started I turned on the windlass and started reeling in anchor chain just in case. As the skiff pulled up even with the main mast chainplates I saw one of the bad guys grab the cap shroud with both hands and put a foot on the big rub strake about halfway up from the water and try and get back on board. He had on pimp leather street shoes and he could not get and traction on the slick gel coat and he looked like a cartoon character with both feet flailing away on the rub strake. I grabbed a winch handle and went and stood looking down at him telling him I was going to stamp RAMWEL on his forehead with the winch handle if he didn't get back in the skiff which was circling around for him. The old fisherman was laughing at his antics which embarrassed him further and the his partner and the kid were pretty soon laughing too. He finally got a foot on the caprail and I started rapping him across the knuckles. He must have been coked up pretty good because he kept changing hands on the shrouds and I kept hitting him harder. I didn't want to do any real damage but I'm sure I broke some fingers and he finally fell back into the bow of the skiff. The girls with the guns had joined me and the whole motley crew finally left.

Still no sign of our skipper and I got the anchor in and took a lap down the beach hoping to see him turning in his moped. Turned out that the Customs guys had given him a real hard time for even having anchored in Negril because of all the drug traffic in those days. I motored offshore far enough to make a hasty departure in case the 'contractors' went and commandeered a bigger faster boat and came back for revenge. It was almost dark by the time I spotted our skipper waving and cussing at me from the beach. I though he was going to go up the little creek where the fishing boats hung out but I told him he was just going to have to swim out and I would motor in as far as I could and pick him up. After we got him onboard and sails up the girls and I told him the whole story. I think I would have been in bad trouble without the two capable and motivated girls backing me up with our flare pistols.

Our arsenal...

 

[fufkin]

Where did you carry the gun? Holster or bag. Would you have been able to draw first if someone came up from behind, stuck a barrel in your kidney and said‘Money or your life’? To the best of your knowledge, did anyone know your schedule?

Does your advocated weapons training cover any of these scenarios or would more self defence training be required beyond how to load, unload, clean and shoot paper?

Waistband

When I was carrying lots of cash or lots of product, no one was coming up from behind. Awareness is first and most important training item, they'll teach you that if you get trained.

Are you asking if I notified others when I was carrying large amounts of cash or product? Stupid fucking question.


Nonsense question. I have no 'advanced weapons training.' I have a lifetime of shooting things and critters and maintaining the shooty tools. They aren't that complicated. Fucking weirdos out there have created a narrative that defending oneself with a handgun requires SpecOps boot camp. Hint: Practicing to defend oneself with their hands is a fuck ton more complicated than being capable of defending with a pistol.

I didn’t ask if you notified anyone of your schedule...that really would be stupid to think of. I asked if someone could feasibly know or predict it(see the difference...) which would increase your risk substantially.

Thanks for your answer on hand to hand defence vs weapons training defence. I believe it is relevant in terms of defence vs sexual assault. The fact that defending with one’s hands is a ‘fuckton’ more complicated than merely pulling a trigger (first), certainly doesn’t make it less effective nor widespread as a self defence solution.

As for gunsplaining where guns belong as personal protection on the water, as a teenager I cruised on a boat a couple of times in Trini waters that was armed, rather heavily. We were put putted one night and before I could wake from my rum induced deep sleep, my buddy was out on deck yelling at the top of his lungs in patois letting them know we were packing. They sauntered off.

To this day, it’s had me wondering what I’d do if that happened again. So far, my solution has been to hang with the right people and stay out of bad neighborhoods, especially after dark...55 countries later street smarts is still the only weapon I’m ready to brandish.

 

[Student_Driver]

Rasputin. What a story. Crazy. I actually was born in Kingston Jamaica. Lived there till 1972. Never saw guns but my 4th grade classmate was killed with her sister and parents by machete a few miles from our home in a remote area of Red Hills north of Kingston. They fired their gardener, and he took revenge.

 

[LB 15]

It's always the American boats that have guns. The bad guys know this so they rob the American yacht of its guns, usually when you are not there.

Most countries have very strict prohibitions on bringing guns into their country. Even Canada. Please show up at the northern border with your pistol and see how you are treated. Other countries will either seize them or lock them up at the police station for your stay. Sort of sucks because you might not get it back or can't travel to other parts of the country easily because your gun is in one port and upwind from other parts where you want to visit.

Here's a suggestion: don't go to places that are known spots for piracy. This includes Red Sea/Straits of Hormuz, western Africa (Gulf of Guinea), the eastern part of Borneo and southern Phillipines, lots of parts of PNG, and near Cabo Gracias de Dios (eastern part of Nicaragua). Avoid some Caribbean Islands and Venezula for the same reason. These are all known trouble spots and have been for years. The world is a big place. Pick other spots to visit!

2 stories:
When anchored in the "Flats" anchorage near Colon Panama I heard a noise outside. Popped my head out the forward hatch and saw a dark figure crouched on the side deck. I yelled top of my lungs "GET OFF MY BOAT". The dark figure flinched and yelled "It's me, it's me Ramsay!" My good friend Ramsay had joined us as a linehandler and at 3 am my brain forgot he was aboard. He had just pee'd over the side and was sitting down to enjoy the night breeze.


Friends of ours from Texas had a lot of guns aboard. They literally slept with a gun under their pillow. Middle of the night they hear a big crash. They think they are being boarded. Ken pops up the foredeck hatch with a shotgun, safety off. (They had also just finished reading a scary book about a cruiser being attacked in another part of the Caribbean). Another boat had dragged anchor and had banged their bow pulpit and people were climbing on their boat to unstuck themselves.

Tell me if guns aboard made that second situation safer for all concerned.

Most bad things that happen to cruisers are 90% theft when people are off their boat or asleep. Forceful boardings or assaults by a determined criminal is way, way down on the list of things I'd worry about.

I also worry more about walking in parts of some big US cities but that's a different discussion!

Post of the thread. And said in that nice Canadian way. 😀