FTX

Lark

Supper Anarchist
9,668
1,799
Ohio
When it first came out, I hoped bitcoin was a way to undercut the merchant service providers and their 2-4% fees on all credit card transactions (varies by type of card, debit vs credit, in building, over the phone or online, phase of the moon, etc so when the competition does a cost comparison, they always find a way to look better). Cyber was far too volatile to use for real transactions, unless the goal was to launder money or hide illegal enterprises. On the other hand, I was happy to see them fail since they bypass the reserve banks of the countries using them, hindering a nation's ability to manage its own economy.
 

Clove Hitch

Halyard licker
10,597
1,788
around and about
As almost anyone in the business would agree: Anything you can use blockchain to accomplish, you can do faster, cheaper, and more securely using something else.
That's why I partnered with Google when I launched Knot Dollar$.

Sharing a link on the Google "Drive" for an nft is much easier and cheaper than getting a spot on the ethereum chain or any other blockchain. And if a crew member wants to use some of their Knot Dollar$ to get out of a boat work day they can easily see their balance on the drive. It's a tidy (de)centralized solution.
 

kent_island_sailor

Super Anarchist
27,688
5,538
Kent Island!
As almost anyone in the business would agree: Anything you can use blockchain to accomplish, you can do faster, cheaper, and more securely using something else.
Speaking of blockchain, at some point the "Block Chain" (sp?) company got a lot of interest from crypto-morons who did not realize they sold actual steel chain :ROFLMAO:
 

Olsonist

Disgusting Liberal Elitist
30,036
4,579
New Oak City
As almost anyone in the business would agree: Anything you can use blockchain to accomplish, you can do faster, cheaper, and more securely using something else.

There are different kinds of blockchains. The proof-of-work (proof-of-waste really) that Bitcoin uses is a strawman proposal that unfortunately people took seriously.

IBM's Hyperledger uses the much much more efficient+faster proof-of-authority. It really is a solid piece of engineering (solving a different problem than money laundering) but it still needed to survive in the market. Maybe it didn't because Bitcoin has such a bad reputation that real companies want to stay away from even the idea of blockchain. But it didn't and we'll still live.

Still, anyone taking Bitcoin seriously is a deluded moron.
 

kent_island_sailor

Super Anarchist
27,688
5,538
Kent Island!
Still, anyone taking Bitcoin seriously is a deluded moron.
Based on Monday’s bitcoin prices, and assuming that Beckham put the entire $750,000 in bitcoin when the deal was made in November, his salary would now be worth about $401,500. Despite the drop in value for Beckham’s salary, he will still have to pay taxes on his income as it was given to him, at the $750,000 value.
* I think it fell a LOT more after this was written too :ROFLMAO:
 

Clove Hitch

Halyard licker
10,597
1,788
around and about
Based on Monday’s bitcoin prices, and assuming that Beckham put the entire $750,000 in bitcoin when the deal was made in November, his salary would now be worth about $401,500. Despite the drop in value for Beckham’s salary, he will still have to pay taxes on his income as it was given to him, at the $750,000 value.
* I think it fell a LOT more after this was written too :ROFLMAO:
Holy shit. What a fucking moron. I hope he wasn't keeping his bitcoin on FTX.

I recommend he cash out and convert to Knot Dollar$
 

kent_island_sailor

Super Anarchist
27,688
5,538
Kent Island!
Holy shit. What a fucking moron. I hope he wasn't keeping his bitcoin on FTX.

I recommend he cash out and convert to Knot Dollar$
That is something I never even thought about - you get paid in crypto and the IRS is going to tax you on what it was worth THAT DAY. You could very easily owe more income tax than your salary if it falls far enough.

* reminds me a little bit of a guy who wanted to "stick it to the man" and paid his employees with gold coins and sent in the tax info with the face value of the coins. The IRS, not being morons, taxed them on what the metal was worth.
 

Raz'r

Super Anarchist
63,131
5,850
De Nile
That is something I never even thought about - you get paid in crypto and the IRS is going to tax you on what it was worth THAT DAY. You could very easily owe more income tax than your salary if it falls far enough.

* reminds me a little bit of a guy who wanted to "stick it to the man" and paid his employees with gold coins and sent in the tax info with the face value of the coins. The IRS, not being morons, taxed them on what the metal was worth.

Every market crash we hear the same thing. "I owe more in taxes than I ended up salvaging from that investment"

This happened in the DotCom crash - Folks bought their inflated options, which have a nasty "implied gain" in them for taxes, and if they didn't cash a portion out immediately to pay the taxes, would be HAMMERED and begging for payment plans the next April 15th.

One senior finance guy I know wound up owing $6million, with an M, and his stock, while both worthless, didn't cover 10% of that. Stock dropped 90% in just about 9 months. Think of the mind-fuck if you think you're worth $20m, and end up owing say $2-3m to the feds?

Buy High and Sell Low seems to be the standard market froth problem. What's the adage, you know the markets at a peak when joe-blow sells everything and invests?
 

Clove Hitch

Halyard licker
10,597
1,788
around and about
That is something I never even thought about - you get paid in crypto and the IRS is going to tax you on what it was worth THAT DAY. You could very easily owe more income tax than your salary if it falls far enough.

* reminds me a little bit of a guy who wanted to "stick it to the man" and paid his employees with gold coins and sent in the tax info with the face value of the coins. The IRS, not being morons, taxed them on what the metal was worth.
And turning your cyrpto into actual, useful money is not something to take for granted!
 

Olsonist

Disgusting Liberal Elitist
30,036
4,579
New Oak City
That is something I never even thought about - you get paid in crypto and the IRS is going to tax you on what it was worth THAT DAY. You could very easily owe more income tax than your salary if it falls far enough.

* reminds me a little bit of a guy who wanted to "stick it to the man" and paid his employees with gold coins and sent in the tax info with the face value of the coins. The IRS, not being morons, taxed them on what the metal was worth.

Same thing happens with incentive stock options for startups. Suppose you have incentive options at a strike price of a penny and hold on to them. Then the company does well and that penny becomes $100. So you exercise them at a penny. Woohoo! I have stock and it's worth a lot of money! Yeah, but you owe taxes on $100. Worse, if the stock tanks, you still owe taxes at that $100 level. Really really sucks to be you. If the company IPOs you can get forced into this scenario.

This is the purpose of the 83b election. You get the option at a strike price of a penny. You have 30 days to exercise it. Then your exercise price and strike price are the same with no taxes due.

Now you'd think that startup CEOs would have a gun (hi Tom!) in their desk drawer so that when they hand out you the options they can say I want the money now or your brains are going to be splattered on the option.
 

kent_island_sailor

Super Anarchist
27,688
5,538
Kent Island!
So you get paid in a commodity, crypto, gold, lead, wheat, or whatever.
I *think* you pay income tax on whatever it was worth that day and then pay capital gains tax if you turn it into cash at a rate higher than what you got taxed on.
 

Raz'r

Super Anarchist
63,131
5,850
De Nile
So you get paid in a commodity, crypto, gold, lead, wheat, or whatever.
I *think* you pay income tax on whatever it was worth that day and then pay capital gains tax if you turn it into cash at a rate higher than what you got taxed on.
That's right. the ideal is you buy and pay the implied taxes, then, if there is future growth, you pay taxes on the cap gains. It's a good deal for early round employees as the buy in is quite low, and the implied gain isn't that large. So you're out of pocket maybe $20-30k, and maybe pay the same in taxes. Then, if the company goes nuts, you've locked in cap gains as your tax rate.

Later employees? Not such a good strategy, as now you're borrowing money to buy the stock and pay the taxes.
 


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