Furler for spin and 0

Breakaway

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I’m looking to get a Code 0 and furler setup that could eventually accommodate asymmetrical spins. Any suggestions on furler brands to look at or avoid? I’ve used a Karver system on another persons boat and it worked relatively well, though furling the assym was potentially problematic, and when it went wrong it was spectacularly bad. 
 

I was looking at the Reflex symmetry by Harken, that says it is good for top down furling. At one point I believe Profurl was touted as being great for assyms.
 

this is off a sprit with a bobstay, 35’ boat. Looking at medium to long distance single handed racing. 
 

thanks, gc

 

The Dark Knight

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I had a Selden CX25 on my old boat for a code sail. When I bought a downwind assy I got their selden top down adapter. The CX25 lived on the bowsprit whilst cruising ready to take either sail.

The selden seems to be a lot cheaper than the Harken or Karver.

I never had a problem as long as the halyard was on hard for furling in and out.

 

Reference

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None of them work particularly well.

It all hinges on proper furling technique, which is a combo between bow, pit/trimmer, & driver. Without a bear away, quick ease on the sheet, and bow pulling down on the clew to keep tension up high, there's likely going to be problems.  Most important is for the bow to be able to recognize when an issue is developing and communicate back, before the drum winds up or the top unfurls/twists.

 

JL92S

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None of them work particularly well.

It all hinges on proper furling technique, which is a combo between bow, pit/trimmer, & driver. Without a bear away, quick ease on the sheet, and bow pulling down on the clew to keep tension up high, there's likely going to be problems.  Most important is for the bow to be able to recognize when an issue is developing and communicate back, before the drum winds up or the top unfurls/twists.
Don’t forget a good quality furling cable is essential. An expensive furler with a cheap cable will give you headaches 

 

joe.barry

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On my Express 37, I have a Karver KSF2, off a sprit, with Amare 15.3mm torsion Cables (SWL 2500kg) for the Code 0, and A-sails. The KSF2 works as a top down (A sails) or a bottom up (Code 0) furler. The A2 doesn't furl as well as the others, since it's rather full. The Amare cables are custom with Kevlar inside and double dyneema sleeve cover. Cables are rather stiff but loosen up a bit so coiling becomes easier. I am very happy with these choices. Cables were sourced through Upffront. There are Marlow MGP Furler 50 control lines run through 2 cam cleats. Tackline is a 3:1 and runs through a Karver KJ10 Jammer out on the sprit to a coachroof winch, and a Jammer remote trip line in the cockpit. 

 
I have a Selden CX15 on an Olson 30. With a 35' boat the CX15 is probably marginally too lightweight, should go up to the larger model. It's well sized for the 30. It's used for a Code 0 and an A1.5. The asym has the top down adapter on the cable. The asym is not super easy to furl. I can't imagine furling it singlehanded, doublehanded might be OK. With a good autopilot it would be easier. It takes a lot of pulling to get the asym to start furling. The Code 0 can easily be furled doublehanded and probably OK singlehanded as well since it's used it relatively light breeze and it just generally furls well.

 
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stinky

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Socks work so much better than furlers on kites, especially for kites with decent shoulders and a bit of shape.

Unless your boat is very very fast and your kites are very very flat, I would strongly recommend a sock for your kites.

 

Overbored

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Been using the Harken Reflex top down and it solved the back wrap problem. there torque rope has no wind up and works as good as the expensive $2k torque rope but it is heavier.

 
I have a Karver KF2 dedicated for my Code 0 on a Trogear sprit, it is a Helix from North Sails thus no torque rope, KF2 works as bottom up, only issue is the furler occasionally wants to twist. Also I keep my A2 in a sock which works a treat. I solo my C&C115 so they are big sails.

 

B dock

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SF bay
I use the Harken reflex for bottom up and top down furling.  I single hand mostly without an auto pilot just a tiller clutch.  It works perfect for the code sail as the bottom up is bomber.  top down is a bit more tricky.  When using an A2 asym you have follow a specific set of steps and it rolls up quickly and relatively easily.  It will not roll super tight so you want to take it down and stow it if you will be sailing more for any length of time.  if you do not do the steps right and do not keep some tension on the sheet as you roll top down, the furl can get messed up.  In that case, if you recognize it quick, you have reset it and reroll it the right way. I have had the roll mess up so bad I had refurl and untangle it in my backyard.  The more I use it the better and more consistent i get with it.  Because it is pretty convenient, I use it almost every time I go sailing and I am confident enough now to usually carry the spinnaker to just outside the marina entrance if it is uncrowded.  I feel the benefits of the system generally outweigh the negatives in this case.

a couple notes: I have had the ring pull jam the lower mechanism several times, which when top down furling creates a huge cluster.  I modified the ring pull and have eliminated that issue.  Also how you set up the tack attachment for top down furling does matter, a little extra line at the tack works best. Sails designed for top down furling do work a bit better, than just a normal spinnaker due to the stiffness of the head re-enforcement.

The clearance at your mast head between your jib halyard and your spinnaker halyard can be an issue for top down furlers.  Fractional rigs with a masthead spinnaker halyard generally have more clearance and work more smoothly for top down systems in my opinion.

One last note:  if I was racing a lot,which I do not,  I would bale on the top down furler and just take it down normally by blowing the tack, gathering the sail behind the main, and stuffing it down the companion way.  Cheaper and more bomb proof.

 
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Breakaway

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Maine
Thanks, all good info. I should have added it is a J35 - retractable sprit. I'm just looking at the 0 on the furler this year, so I'll be messing with the chutes the standard way for now. I'll see about trying out a sock.

 

Parma

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I have no idea what kind of furler I have but do know that it's all about technique: keep the halyard & tack lines tight and unfurl using the continuous furling line and the sheet not the sheet alone. I put a 2:1 block on the tack using a mified Harken EP cruising block (it's the only one out there with a shaft thick enough to drill out to to insert a pin in order to stop the whole thing from spinning)

20170514_122500.jpg

 

The Dark Knight

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I have a Selden CX15 on an Olson 30. With a 35' boat the CX15 is probably marginally too lightweight, should go up to the larger model. It's well sized for the 30. It's used for a Code 0 and an A1.5. The asym has the top down adapter on the cable. The asym is not super easy to furl. I can't imagine furling it singlehanded, doublehanded might be OK. With a good autopilot it would be easier. It takes a lot of pulling to get the asym to start furling. The Code 0 can easily be furled doublehanded and probably OK singlehanded as well since it's used it relatively light breeze and it just generally furls well.
No problem solo furling a 115sqm North G2 on a Selden CX25 & topdown adapter on my old 40footer. Even furled it in in 20knots without a main to blanket it. The G2 would not furl neatly, in any conditions, but it did not matter as it would be dropped straight down.

 You do need to be a bit of an octupus furling in the sail whilst controlling the easing of the sheet and taking the slack out of the lazy sheet.

 

The Dark Knight

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What is the shape difference between an A2 and a G2? I think the A2 (or in my case A1.5) would be a lot fuller?
Makes sense and the diagrams indicate that. 

A1.5                                                                                                                   G3

image.png image.png

 
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