Game changing battery tech?

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B dock

Member
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SF bay
From a Science paper just published Feb 3, 2023.

A lithium-air battery based on lithium oxide (Li2O) formation can theoretically deliver an energy density that is comparable to that of gasoline. Lithium oxide formation involves a four-electron reaction that is more difficult to achieve than the one- and two-electron reaction processes that result in lithium superoxide (LiO2) and lithium peroxide (Li2O2), respectively. By using a composite polymer electrolyte based on Li10GeP2S12 nanoparticles embedded in a modified polyethylene oxide polymer matrix, we found that Li2O is the main product in a room temperature solid-state lithium-air battery. The battery is rechargeable for 1000 cycles with a low polarization gap and can operate at high rates. The four-electron reaction is enabled by a mixed ion-electron-conducting discharge product and its interface with air.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

A room temperature rechargeable Li2O-based lithium-air battery enabled by a solid electrolyte - PubMed

A lithium-air battery based on lithium oxide (Li<sub>2</sub>O) formation can theoretically deliver an energy density that is comparable to that of gasoline. Lithium oxide formation involves a four-electron reaction that is more difficult to achieve than the one- and two-electron reaction...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

This seems to be a big jump in energy density storage tech maybe the all-electric long distance cruiser is closer than we thought.
 
Diarmuid

Diarmuid

Super Anarchist
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2,030
Laramie, WY, USA
B dock said:
From a Science paper just published Feb 3, 2023.

A lithium-air battery based on lithium oxide (Li2O) formation can theoretically deliver an energy density that is comparable to that of gasoline. Lithium oxide formation involves a four-electron reaction that is more difficult to achieve than the one- and two-electron reaction processes that result in lithium superoxide (LiO2) and lithium peroxide (Li2O2), respectively. By using a composite polymer electrolyte based on Li10GeP2S12 nanoparticles embedded in a modified polyethylene oxide polymer matrix, we found that Li2O is the main product in a room temperature solid-state lithium-air battery. The battery is rechargeable for 1000 cycles with a low polarization gap and can operate at high rates. The four-electron reaction is enabled by a mixed ion-electron-conducting discharge product and its interface with air.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

A room temperature rechargeable Li2O-based lithium-air battery enabled by a solid electrolyte - PubMed

A lithium-air battery based on lithium oxide (Li<sub>2</sub>O) formation can theoretically deliver an energy density that is comparable to that of gasoline. Lithium oxide formation involves a four-electron reaction that is more difficult to achieve than the one- and two-electron reaction...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

This seems to be a big jump in energy density storage tech maybe the all-electric long distance cruiser is closer than we thought.
Click to expand...
{emphasis added}

My two rules when approaching any new technology claiming order-of-magnitude improvements over known, proven technology:

1. Build a hundred units & let independent testers run them thru their paces in labs & in the field. Then get back to us with the results.

2. Immediately distrust anyone who uses the prefix 'nano-' in relation to their product.

There is still plenty of headroom in battery science, and I look forward to the next ten years of developments. But there have been so many false dawns, baseless claims, and outright scams. I ain't getting excited until the claimants build actual full-scale working batteries and have a year or two of hard data to back them up. Friend of mine got fleeced for $10k by people offering ground-floor investment ops for a revolutionary new battery storage chemistry; it was all shiny brochures and animated electrons and purest vaporware.

BTW, a thousand cycles is kind of shit.
 
IStream

IStream

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I agree 100% with your post, @Diarmuid, up until the last line. 1000 charge cycles is kind of shit compared to current lithium chemistries but at ~350 miles of range per cycle, it's equivalent to 350,000 miles. That's plenty for a passenger vehicle and I could easily see the automakers trading 2/3 the cycle life for 8X the energy density, especially if it can be charged more quickly.
 
B

B dock

Member
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SF bay
No chemist but apparently these type of batteries are safer do not need cobalt and may even be able use sodium instead of lithium. The research was done at a University of Chicago affiliate lab and the paper was published in Science, one of the top flight academic journals that is extensively peer reviewed. This is the real deal but how quickly it gets to manufacturing is a different matter.

some additional info
"The lithium-air battery has the highest projected energy density of any battery technology being considered for the next generation of batteries beyond lithium-ion."

"With further development, we expect our new design for the lithium-air battery to also reach a record energy density of 1200 watt-hours per kilogram," said Curtiss. "That is nearly four times better than lithium-ion batteries."

The research was funded by the DOE Vehicle Technologies Office and the Office of Basic Energy Sciences through the Joint Center for Energy Storage Research.
 
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mckenzie.keith

Aspiring Anarchist
1,412
537
Santa Cruz
B dock said:
From a Science paper just published Feb 3, 2023.

A lithium-air battery based on lithium oxide (Li2O) formation can theoretically deliver an energy density that is comparable to that of gasoline. Lithium oxide formation involves a four-electron reaction that is more difficult to achieve than the one- and two-electron reaction processes that result in lithium superoxide (LiO2) and lithium peroxide (Li2O2), respectively. By using a composite polymer electrolyte based on Li10GeP2S12 nanoparticles embedded in a modified polyethylene oxide polymer matrix, we found that Li2O is the main product in a room temperature solid-state lithium-air battery. The battery is rechargeable for 1000 cycles with a low polarization gap and can operate at high rates. The four-electron reaction is enabled by a mixed ion-electron-conducting discharge product and its interface with air.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

A room temperature rechargeable Li2O-based lithium-air battery enabled by a solid electrolyte - PubMed

A lithium-air battery based on lithium oxide (Li<sub>2</sub>O) formation can theoretically deliver an energy density that is comparable to that of gasoline. Lithium oxide formation involves a four-electron reaction that is more difficult to achieve than the one- and two-electron reaction...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

This seems to be a big jump in energy density storage tech maybe the all-electric long distance cruiser is closer than we thought.
Click to expand...
I see press releases like this almost daily. Most of them never amount to anything, even years later. People are working on stuff. There will be changes and improvements. But if you can't read a datasheet or test report and you can't buy it on Amazon or from a distributor of some sort, it is probably still years away from being in your boat (if ever).
 
Diarmuid

Diarmuid

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mckenzie.keith said:
I see press releases like this almost daily. Most of them never amount to anything, even years later. People are working on stuff. There will be changes and improvements. But if you can't read a datasheet or test report and you can't buy it on Amazon or from a distributor of some sort, it is probably still years away from being in your boat (if ever).
Click to expand...
They just achieved a net-energy-positive controlled nuclear fusion reaction!! For, like, 30 seconds in a type of machine that could never be used for generating continuous power. Meaning we're only 20 years away from unlimited, cheap fusion-powered electricity!! Which is precisely where we have been for the past six decades.

So... yay? You don't build your dreams around that kind of promise, and you don't make contemporaneous policy based on it. Wake me up for the ribbon cutting of Tokomatik 1 Maximum Power Station, able to charge your LithAir(tm) electric jetpack in only 6 seconds so you can fly the Hyperloop to Mars.

 
slap

slap

Super Anarchist
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Somewhat near Naptown
Diarmuid said:
2. Immediately distrust anyone who uses the prefix 'nano-' in relation to their product.
Click to expand...
Robin-Williams-as-Mork.jpg
 
S

socalrider

Super Anarchist
1,493
884
San Diego CA
I'm in the renewable energy industry and we have a saying:

"There are liars, damned liars, and battery suppliers"

This stuff takes a lot of time to scale from the lab bench to production - rule of thumb is 10 years and $10B to get to factory scale. Lithium-Ion was conceptualized in the 60's and 70's, demonstrated in the 80's, and first came on the market in 1991 (Sony). It's a great chemistry and continues to improve every year. As with mono/poly silicon PV, continuous improvements in an established technology have dispatched with most/all competing technologies (First Solar being the exception in PV).

As mentioned above, the good news is that the size of the prize here is massive, and it's attracting big $$ pouring into fundamental research in materials, which is where all real tech "breakthroughs" start. We'll have much better batteries - It just takes a long time and a lot of money.

Good to take a step back and see how far we've come as well - look at the incredible proliferation of consumer products which are taking advantage of these light, cheap, energy-dense batteries! Lots more to come.
 
Panope

Panope

Super Anarchist
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Port Townsend, WA
kinardly said:
I immediately distrust anyone who uses adjectives like “breakthrough“‘, “groundbreaking”, “seismic shift”, “quantum leap” or “game changing” in association with technology. Especially if they are in investor seeking mode.
Click to expand...

Me too.

That said, there are two technologies on my boat that provided "game changing" effects:

GPS

LED lightbulbs.

Ok, Dyneema is pretty neat, but wire rope and metal shackles work just as well.
 
G

gptyk

Anarchist
855
495
California
kinardly said:
I immediately distrust anyone who uses adjectives like “breakthrough“‘, “groundbreaking”, “seismic shift”, “quantum leap” or “game changing” in association with technology. Especially if they are in investor seeking mode.
Click to expand...
Me three.

I worked on AL/air and ZN/air batteries over 30 years ago (contract SW development, not chemistry). For big things, not hearing aids. It was gonna be the biggest breakthrough of all time. Once funding dried up, the projects disappeared. Just wasn't going to work at the time, with the amount of $$ being pumped into it. (And we _all_ knew it)

Panope is right: LEDs were actual gamechangers.
 
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