GB5508 Rebuild - Soma's Project

HotCarNut

Member
57
16
Denver, CO
soma said:
5506 just launched. She looks real low in the stern. Also a NC finished boat. 

5507 was finished in NC a couple of years ago and is named "Thirst". 

We are 5508. 

5509 was sold, completed in NC, and is now "Star of Florence". Relatively low-spec/low-performance. Owner's happy, though, so good enough. 

5510 was under contract. The buyer also wanted a low-spec/low performance boat. We'd been talking about me helping out but I got the feeling I didn't want to be a part of what he wants to build. I'm assuming it's closed and will be finished in NC. 

There was no 5511, 5512, or 5513.

The last hull is 5514, and that was given in trade to the guys in NC. Last I heard they were going to make a fishing boat out of the bare hull  

That should end the 55 chapter. 
Ouch....”low spec/low performance” sounds like a terrible recipe for the brand.  Surprised GLY didn’t mandate some minimum to at least the 57 spec to help protect the brand when the hulls were sold.  Of course, they may not have been able to if the hulls were liquidated as part of the bankruptcy....

 

HotCarNut

Member
57
16
Denver, CO
soma said:
GLY owned several of the hulls, and some were owned by the original buyers with Gunboat acting as the broker. GLY forbade the buyers from calling it a Gunboat but didn't really care what became of the hulls after the checks were cashed. They're branded as Croswait 57s. We felt there was a bright line between the NC era and the GLY era so "protecting the brand" wasn't really necessary. The "good" Gunboat 55's (Rainmaker) and the "bad" Gunboat 55's (Croswait 57s) were both on the other side of that bright line. 
So does that mean your project can’t be called a Gunboat either?

 

Wess

Super Anarchist
soma said:
5506 just launched. She looks real low in the stern. Also a NC finished boat. 

5507 was finished in NC a couple of years ago and is named "Thirst". 

We are 5508. 

5509 was sold, completed in NC, and is now "Star of Florence". Relatively low-spec/low-performance. Owner's happy, though, so good enough. 

5510 was under contract. The buyer also wanted a low-spec/low performance boat. We'd been talking about me helping out but I got the feeling I didn't want to be a part of what he wants to build. I'm assuming it's closed and will be finished in NC. 

There was no 5511, 5512, or 5513.

The last hull is 5514, and that was given in trade to the guys in NC. Last I heard they were going to make a fishing boat out of the bare hull  

That should end the 55 chapter. 
5506 has a huge rig if I am recalling correctly!!  HUGE!!

soma said:
GLY owned several of the hulls, and some were owned by the original buyers with Gunboat acting as the broker. GLY forbade the buyers from calling it a Gunboat but didn't really care what became of the hulls after the checks were cashed. They're branded as Croswait 57s. We felt there was a bright line between the NC era and the GLY era so "protecting the brand" wasn't really necessary. The "good" Gunboat 55's (Rainmaker) and the "bad" Gunboat 55's (Croswait 57s) were both on the other side of that bright line. 
How or why does GB/GLY even have a say in that?  Its a simple fact that Gunboat built the hull and Croswait finished them.  If they want to care about what they are called maybe they shouldn't have screwed the owners that were left hanging and honored the contracts. 

 

Wess

Super Anarchist
Or they could just buy the trademark and then they can have whatever say they want.  Oh, wait.
You would know better than me Clean and for sure GLY owns the GB trademark.  But doesn't truth trump all?

To me its a Gunboat/Croswait 55; hulls built by Gunboat and finished by Croswait... I think that is a statement of absolute fact and truth.  Does Gunboat have the legal right to walk away from their history and deny that fact... at least I think (?) it is??  :wacko:

 
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MR.CLEAN

Moderator
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Not here
You would know better than me Clean and for sure GLY owns the GB trademark.  But doesn't truth trump all?

To me its a Gunboat/Croswait 55; hulls built by Gunboat and finished by Croswait... I think that is a statement of absolute fact and truth.  Does Gunboat have the legal right to walk away from their history and deny that fact... at least I think (?) it is??  :wacko:
They certainly have the right to prevent you from selling your boat as a Gunboat, but you can call it anything you want until that day

 

Rasputin22

Rasputin22
13,903
3,458
Has anyone registered the name 'SCUMBOAT'? Might be an appropriate name for the bankruptcy bastards from Wanchese.

 

Wess

Super Anarchist
They certainly have the right to prevent you from selling your boat as a Gunboat, but you can call it anything you want until that day
Yea, it ain'y my boat so no horse in this.  And I think its fair to say some potential buyers might view the fact as positive and some as negative that its a GB designed and built 55 hull.  So doesn't a seller have an obligation to not mislead a buyer or misrepresent what they are selling?  I get that they can't and shouldn't call it a Gunboat but neither is it accurate to call it a Croswait.  That's why I was think the best defense is the simple truth "Gunboat/Croswait 55, hulls by Gunboat and finishing by Croswait."

Not stirring here.  Honestly curious how the law treats this or what you would advise a seller of such a boat.  Actually have a friend that (should he sell) would be in very similar situation.

 
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thegood

New member
19
10
space
What are you even arguing about? They clearly state that they use the hulls from gunboat.

337F7B2E-D5A9-4E02-ACCA-37A37EBD182F.jpeg

 

MR.CLEAN

Moderator
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4,424
Not here
Yea, it ain'y my boat so no horse in this.  And I think its fair to say some potential buyers might view the fact as positive and some as negative that its a GB designed and built 55 hull.  So doesn't a seller have an obligation to not mislead a buyer or misrepresent what they are selling?  I get that they can't and shouldn't call it a Gunboat but neither is it accurate to call it a Croswait.  That's why I was think the best defense is the simple truth "Gunboat/Croswait 55, hulls by Gunboat and finishing by Croswait."

Not stirring here.  Honestly curious how the law treats this or what you would advise a seller of such a boat.  Actually have a friend that (should he sell) would be in very similar situation.
I'd probably advise the seller to be honest.  if Gunboat told him he couldn't call it a Gunboat then he or she is on notice, probably shouldn't use the name except descriptively.  If not then the seller could just use what he or she wanted and then change it if they receive a nastygram.  But like everything, it depends on the specific facts of the situation and the controlling documents, if any exist.

 

Rasputin22

Rasputin22
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Who precisely are the bankruptcy bastards here?  The guy who no longer owns it or the company who does?
Clean, I was referring to the unfinished hulls that were left in Wanchese as bastards since their father abandoned them. Maybe one of them could be named 'SNOWCAT' in keeping with the naming tradition of the Game of Thrones!

 

Rasputin22

Rasputin22
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Thought you might. Maybe 'SNOWBOAT' would be more appropriate. 

A bit more on the subject

“Snow” is the bastard name for the North, not the entirety of Westeros. Each region has its own bastard surname:

  • North: Snow
  • Iron Islands: Pyke
  • Westerlands: Hill
  • Vale: Stone
  • Stormlands: Storm
  • Riverlands: Rivers
  • Dorne: Sand
  • Reach: Flowers
  • Crownlands: Waters

The “joke,” or rationale, near as I can tell, is that the bastard surnames almost always point to something that’s plentiful in the operative region: lots of snow in the North, lots of sand in Dorne, lots of rivers in the Riverlands, and so on. It’s a nod to fact that there are lots of bastards running around. The outlier is Pyke.

 

HotCarNut

Member
57
16
Denver, CO
Thought you might. Maybe 'SNOWBOAT' would be more appropriate. 

A bit more on the subject

“Snow” is the bastard name for the North, not the entirety of Westeros. Each region has its own bastard surname:

  • North: Snow
  • Iron Islands: Pyke
  • Westerlands: Hill
  • Vale: Stone
  • Stormlands: Storm
  • Riverlands: Rivers
  • Dorne: Sand
  • Reach: Flowers
  • Crownlands: Waters

The “joke,” or rationale, near as I can tell, is that the bastard surnames almost always point to something that’s plentiful in the operative region: lots of snow in the North, lots of sand in Dorne, lots of rivers in the Riverlands, and so on. It’s a nod to fact that there are lots of bastards running around. The outlier is Pyke.
Now that naming convention WOULD be fitting.  How many surviving 55/57s are there?  9?  One for each region! 

 

mpenman

Member
250
234
Pompano Beach
soma said:
As for weight, the self-reported numbers are good, but that has to be taken with a grain of salt. She DOES seem to be sitting on her lines which is encouraging. I've also heard some firsthand reports that she's VERY fast. I look forward to seeing her mix it up with some other boats. I think it's the best "production" boat for sale anywhere. Seeing Condor parked next to an HH66 was very interesting. The HH looked very dumpy and poorly finished by comparison. Whether the 68 is worth 2x an HH66 is a personal decision. If I was a "comma comma comma" guy I'd have no problem justifying paying 2x for the 68...but I'm not a billionaire. I can't afford a Hobie Getaway. 
I'll wade tepidly into this. The GB brand has got to be the sexiest looking cat available today. They're just damn pretty. I think most came out heavier than expected and with enough canvas anything has a chance at going fast. HH used to build boats for GB and so they're not amateurs in the biz considering they've built a fair number of boats. They, along with GB still struggle with the keep it simple moniker and it takes more than one alert crew member to sail an HH or a GB boat in challenging conditions. Given that they are on hull #3 of the 68 shows there is a market for a world class 'FAST' cruising catamaran. 

I think that poor decision making and lack of transparency with the 57 GB line has left a poor taste in some people's minds, especially those building a new boat on spec. Frankly I'm happy that the GB line is in the hands of the French as they are without doubt some of the finest blue water sailors around. I have nothing but respect for the GB brand as it pertains to thought capital, but I have disdain for their business acumen and decisions made on the actual build. Some of the boats are not up to the GB brand name. That being said, boat building is not a business that makes you a billionaire unless you build Perini's.

I sailed on Skylark, which is Chris White's 72. Please note I own the last 57 made and so I'm slightly biased towards Chris' boats simply because I believe they are fantastic boats to sail as a cruiser, they offer simple systems and are relatively inexpensive to maintain (maybe not to purchase). I will say unequivocally that the 62 and 66 GB boats are way better looking than my boat, although I would hesitate to say they're faster in cruising mode. The 72 however, is one f'n fast boat. I mean f'n fast. It has no trouble at 20 knots with a single reef and a cup of coffee on the table. And that's dialed back. It does not have the tendency that our boat does to slow down when hitting a swell or in the lulls. I have not sailed it in light conditions (less than 15knots) but she is a very, very, very well built. I've sailed on a fair number of boats and frankly, the boat impressed the living crap outta me as a sailing boat. They basically expanded the 57 to a 72 and built her in carbon. She's light and wicked fast. She's also easily managed by one person. I'm not a fan of the salon as it mimics the 57, which I think on a boat of this size offers much more options for setup.

What impressed me was the work done by Aquidneck Custom Composites. Ever single piece of that boat was finished to perfection. It was really, really well built. Even under sail she was stiff and there was no creaking, groaning, nothing. Just unabated transfer of wind to boat speed. I know that the yard is not setup for building 4+ boats a year, but from my perspective, they're very impressive builders. Very impressive. If I were to build a boat they'd be on the top of my list. Being US based, makes them even more desirable. I would just change the salon/coach house a fair bit.  :)

 

mpenman

Member
250
234
Pompano Beach
And have you decided on the solar arrays/cells that you will use yet ?

I've seen that Moonwave have used http://www.gochermann.com/

But looking a bit around on the web (there is not much) , these seems very expensive, making only custom arrays, used a lot for "solar cars competitions",  and it is a tiny company right ?

What about Sunbeam systems ? http://www.sunbeamsystem.com/us/

Solbian ? Others ?
I installed Solara panels on our boat. I tried out other panels, but the German made panels were by far the best option for walk-on panels, although I tend to not spend copious amounts of time jumping around on our panels. They're putting out rated power and are very good in low light conditions. Their construction is what sold me. Their coating is on both sides, they have an aluminum backing and are just better made than every other panel I was able to get my hands on. It's still way cheaper for rigid panels, but I prefer them flat on the coach roof. Just make sure that your foam can take the heat!!!

 

Wess

Super Anarchist
I'll wade tepidly into this. The GB brand has got to be the sexiest looking cat available today. They're just damn pretty. I think most came out heavier than expected and with enough canvas anything has a chance at going fast. HH used to build boats for GB and so they're not amateurs in the biz considering they've built a fair number of boats. They, along with GB still struggle with the keep it simple moniker and it takes more than one alert crew member to sail an HH or a GB boat in challenging conditions. Given that they are on hull #3 of the 68 shows there is a market for a world class 'FAST' cruising catamaran. 

I think that poor decision making and lack of transparency with the 57 GB line has left a poor taste in some people's minds, especially those building a new boat on spec. Frankly I'm happy that the GB line is in the hands of the French as they are without doubt some of the finest blue water sailors around. I have nothing but respect for the GB brand as it pertains to thought capital, but I have disdain for their business acumen and decisions made on the actual build. Some of the boats are not up to the GB brand name. That being said, boat building is not a business that makes you a billionaire unless you build Perini's.

I sailed on Skylark, which is Chris White's 72. Please note I own the last 57 made and so I'm slightly biased towards Chris' boats simply because I believe they are fantastic boats to sail as a cruiser, they offer simple systems and are relatively inexpensive to maintain (maybe not to purchase). I will say unequivocally that the 62 and 66 GB boats are way better looking than my boat, although I would hesitate to say they're faster in cruising mode. The 72 however, is one f'n fast boat. I mean f'n fast. It has no trouble at 20 knots with a single reef and a cup of coffee on the table. And that's dialed back. It does not have the tendency that our boat does to slow down when hitting a swell or in the lulls. I have not sailed it in light conditions (less than 15knots) but she is a very, very, very well built. I've sailed on a fair number of boats and frankly, the boat impressed the living crap outta me as a sailing boat. They basically expanded the 57 to a 72 and built her in carbon. She's light and wicked fast. She's also easily managed by one person. I'm not a fan of the salon as it mimics the 57, which I think on a boat of this size offers much more options for setup.

What impressed me was the work done by Aquidneck Custom Composites. Ever single piece of that boat was finished to perfection. It was really, really well built. Even under sail she was stiff and there was no creaking, groaning, nothing. Just unabated transfer of wind to boat speed. I know that the yard is not setup for building 4+ boats a year, but from my perspective, they're very impressive builders. Very impressive. If I were to build a boat they'd be on the top of my list. Being US based, makes them even more desirable. I would just change the salon/coach house a fair bit.  :)
Great post. Love Chris White boats.

 

Wess

Super Anarchist
What are you even arguing about? They clearly state that they use the hulls from gunboat.

View attachment 307748
That advert can be read to suggest the hulls were owned by GB. Ten X shame on them for the way they treated the contracted buyers if so.  But I think the hulls were actually owned by the contracted buyers and they contracted GB to sell.  Shame on GB if they added terms to what the boats could be called on secondary sale further screwing the original purchasers.  Tells me a lot about GYL.  Not cool!!

 
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