Gennaker newbie questions

[loneshark64]

I have a 35’ coastal cruising-only Beneteau with furling genoa and main. I am looking for advice on a gennaker. Have never used one before.

Parameters: I am 60 with knee replacements, heart surgery, etc and so everything is set up to be easy to do myself for the next 15 years. I sail solo, or with family and friends often but assume I will have to handle everything myself when others are there. This winter (or maybe next) I will replace the sails using the local North Sails guy.

With my current setup the boat is a pig downwind. I don’t have a pole and plan to add a whisker pole this winter to pole out the Genoa but that won’t fundamentally change the picture. I don’t want a proper spinnaker. So I am considering doing a gennaker when I do the other sails. Boat has no sprit, just the stock anchor roller and windlass with an oversized Mantus m1 all of which works fine and I would just as soon not mess with it.

So from you that know more, what should I do here? My sense is get a gennaker with a snuffer, probably the North one with the hard circle, and a tack line to the anchor roller. I will get a rigger to look at it when the time comes but I don’t know if this makes sense. As I said, I would prefer to avoid sail handling on deck in future years but this still seems more feasible than a top down furler which seems like it might often get fouled and have to be set up on deck anyway. I don’t know, and I don’t know any friends that have this. Also I don’t know if there are any things I need to ask for about how the sail is cut or shaped for mostly use well off the wind.

 

[Black Jack]

You are trying to simplify right and go down wind. You need a light and strong whisker pole before you go further. How big is your largest genoa? A large genoa and a pole gives you a lot. I'd go that way first.

A cruising a-sail in a snuffer is easy - nice to use in conjunction with a 100% jib on a roller. It does require going forward and require deck work which is a balancing act shorthanded even with an auto pilot. The new code-0s without torsion cables on a furler are a snap and do not require as much modification as you think. You can set it up before you leave the dock and use it out as you find. They do cost more but convenience, cost and longevity must be factored in this decision.

 

[slug zitski]

A

I have a 35’ coastal cruising-only Beneteau with furling genoa and main. I am looking for advice on a gennaker. Have never used one before.

Parameters: I am 60 with knee replacements, heart surgery, etc and so everything is set up to be easy to do myself for the next 15 years. I sail solo, or with family and friends often but assume I will have to handle everything myself when others are there. This winter (or maybe next) I will replace the sails using the local North Sails guy.

With my current setup the boat is a pig downwind. I don’t have a pole and plan to add a whisker pole this winter to pole out the Genoa but that won’t fundamentally change the picture. I don’t want a proper spinnaker. So I am considering doing a gennaker when I do the other sails. Boat has no sprit, just the stock anchor roller and windlass with an oversized Mantus m1 all of which works fine and I would just as soon not mess with it.

So from you that know more, what should I do here? My sense is get a gennaker with a snuffer, probably the North one with the hard circle, and a tack line to the anchor roller. I will get a rigger to look at it when the time comes but I don’t know if this makes sense. As I said, I would prefer to avoid sail handling on deck in future years but this still seems more feasible than a top down furler which seems like it might often get fouled and have to be set up on deck anyway. I don’t know, and I don’t know any friends that have this. Also I don’t know if there are any things I need to ask for about how the sail is cut or shaped for mostly use well off the wind.

symetrics don’t sail deep angles well…they are reaching sails..

fantastic , powerful reaching sails

properly handled on a furler and they are easy to use

speak to a sailmaker , the asymmetric name gobblygook is confusing and some furling systems are better, easier to use than others

avoid jumbo light air sails

 

[Snowden]

What are you trying to achieve - more speed or a simpler sailplan that requires less attention sailing deep downwind? For the latter I would look at what transatlantic cruisers use (twin headsail setups / Parasailors).

 

[Lost in Translation]

For cruising on my 36 foot boat, I've been happy with an assym cruising kite with sock tacked to a block on the bow. It likes to sail reaches but that just makes the boat more fun to sail than DDW anyway. In some ways, the kite work is easier than dealing with a pole. The sock makes the sets and take downs so much easier.

The challenge in all these approaches is what happens if something goes wrong such as a wrap of the spinnaker when gybing which has definitely happened to me.

A roller system where you could even furl before gybing seems like it would be the least likely to have an error.

 

[slug zitski]

For cruising on my 36 foot boat, I've been happy with an assym cruising kite with sock tacked to a block on the bow. It likes to sail reaches but that just makes the boat more fun to sail than DDW anyway. In some ways, the kite work is easier than dealing with a pole. The sock makes the sets and take downs so much easier.

The challenge in all these approaches is what happens if something goes wrong such as a wrap of the spinnaker when gybing which has definitely happened to me.

A roller system where you could even furl before gybing seems like it would be the least likely to have an error.

Furl then gybe is a blessing

The ability to furl , then leave the sail hoisted when conditions change is a blessing

Spi socks function well .. just more work

 

[Zonker]

symetrics don’t sail deep angles well…they are reaching sails..

I think he missed the "a"...

Anyway modern A2 style running assymetric spinnakers do well up to AWA of about 150. Which is pretty deep. They rotate to windward of the headstay fairly effectively.

With a good snuffer you can leave the boat on autopilot to steer. If you have more agile crew helping then send them to the foredeck and tell them "Pull that rope (snuffer) down as hard as you can when I tell you". You can blow the sheet and blanket the sail with the main more from the cockpit.

 

[paulrtullos]

I think he missed the "a"...

Anyway modern A2 style running assymetric spinnakers do well up to AWA of about 150. Which is pretty deep. They rotate to windward of the headstay fairly effectively.

With a good snuffer you can leave the boat on autopilot to steer. If you have more agile crew helping then send them to the foredeck and tell them "Pull that rope (snuffer) down as hard as you can when I tell you". You can blow the sheet and blanket the sail with the main more from the cockpit.

 

[Snowden]

Anyway modern A2 style running assymetric spinnakers do well up to AWA of about 150. Which is pretty deep. They rotate to windward of the headstay fairly effectively.

Modern being the key word - after a few seasons' usage they stop doing that so well!

 

[paulrtullos]

I have a 35’ coastal cruising-only Beneteau with furling genoa and main. I am looking for advice on a gennaker. Have never used one before.

Parameters: I am 60 with knee replacements, heart surgery, etc and so everything is set up to be easy to do myself for the next 15 years. I sail solo, or with family and friends often but assume I will have to handle everything myself when others are there. This winter (or maybe next) I will replace the sails using the local North Sails guy.

With my current setup the boat is a pig downwind. I don’t have a pole and plan to add a whisker pole this winter to pole out the Genoa but that won’t fundamentally change the picture. I don’t want a proper spinnaker. So I am considering doing a gennaker when I do the other sails. Boat has no sprit, just the stock anchor roller and windlass with an oversized Mantus m1 all of which works fine and I would just as soon not mess with it.

So from you that know more, what should I do here? My sense is get a gennaker with a snuffer, probably the North one with the hard circle, and a tack line to the anchor roller. I will get a rigger to look at it when the time comes but I don’t know if this makes sense. As I said, I would prefer to avoid sail handling on deck in future years but this still seems more feasible than a top down furler which seems like it might often get fouled and have to be set up on deck anyway. I don’t know, and I don’t know any friends that have this. Also I don’t know if there are any things I need to ask for about how the sail is cut or shaped for mostly use well off the wind.

i have a 35 footer that i sail solo weekly. i had doyle build an customized radial version of their ups reacher with 1.6oz laminate instead of the lighter stock nylon and more roach in the leech. it was designed to be used with a bottom up furler. due the added volume in the top half of the sail i had to convert to a top down furler. which works flawlessly. i use the sail constantly. up to 17 or 18 knots of wind when running and broad reaching and can carry up to about 60° in light air. i enjoy it immensely

 

[loneshark64]

You need a light and strong whisker pole before you go further. How big is your largest genoa? A large genoa and a pole gives you a lot. I'd go that way first.

Yes I am adding a whisker pole. My Genoa is 140. I am planning to replace it with a newer 140. I don’t see a reason to change that, it is a head driven masthead boat and idiot proof.

simpler sailplan that requires less attention sailing deep downwind? For the latter I would look at what transatlantic cruisers use (twin headsail setups / Parasailors).

Thanks I have thought about a second headsail. That may be easier but I would personally want to be able to get it out of the way, I would want to deploy and remove the furler and stay.

i have a 35 footer that i sail solo weekly. i had doyle build an customized radial version of their ups reacher with 1.6oz laminate instead of the lighter stock nylon and more roach in the leech. it was designed to be used with a bottom up furler. due the added volume in the top half of the sail i had to convert to a top down furler. which works flawlessly. i use the sail constantly. up to 17 or 18 knots of wind when running and broad reaching and can carry up to about 60° in light air. i enjoy it immensely

This is another idea. I may contact you.

 

[loneshark64]

Anyway modern A2 style running assymetric spinnakers do well up to AWA of about 150. Which is pretty deep. They rotate to windward of the headstay fairly effectively.

With a good snuffer you can leave the boat on autopilot to steer. If you have more agile crew helping then send them to the foredeck and tell them "Pull that rope (snuffer) down as hard as you can when I tell you". You can blow the sheet and blanket the sail with the main more from the cockpit.

This is makes sense. 150 degrees is probably enough. I just get confused between all the variants of gennaker and modern asym, codes, etc. I read the stuff, and don’t get it.

What I want ideally is a deep reaching/almost running sail that I can get out of the way when not in use, doesnt need a pole, and doesn’t have the line complexity of a traditional spinnaker. I would still have the whisker pole when I just want to pole out the Genoa, but not for the new saiI. I guess I am just going to have to talk to the sail guy.

I just got a new nac3 and hydraulic autopilot that is overspec’d for the boat, really, and so if I get a relatively easy to manage downwind setupi would be fine going on deck for that.

 

[VeloceSailing]

i have a 35 footer that i sail solo weekly. i had doyle build an customized radial version of their ups reacher with 1.6oz laminate instead of the lighter stock nylon and more roach in the leech. it was designed to be used with a bottom up furler. due the added volume in the top half of the sail i had to convert to a top down furler. which works flawlessly. i use the sail constantly. up to 17 or 18 knots of wind when running and broad reaching and can carry up to about 60° in light air. i enjoy it immensely

I've transported a 35 footer singkehanded with a similar set up and was great. No stress, great sail, very versatile.
More importantly, you remove some of the major sources of problems (jibe/douse).

With this said, your 140 genoa with the whisker pole might be good enough.

My experience cruising with both sym a d asym with a snuffer, is more trouble than not (if you don't carry it only in the lightest breeze).
It requires work on the bow when going up and coming down. On the bow if the snuffer comes down after a jibe. It often requires both hands while on the bow as you need to keep the sail stretched while pulling the snuffer's line.
Last but not least, the snuffer can get stuck at the forestay attachment. If anything it heavily chafes there. The problem is exacerbated on a masthead. If there is not enough space between the forestay and spi halyard

 

[Vin&Vang]

I used a North code 0 on a Dufour 382. Fantastic reaching off wind but not good too deep. My Genoa is 109% so the code 0 makes a big difference. Might not be such a difference versus a 140% Genoa. It furls around the luff tape, very easy to use without going forward of the mast - it can be left up foiled until you get back to port.

 

[[email protected]]

I use a Code O . At the deeper I drop the main , when it’s deep enough I sheet the Code sail off the end of the boom . The code 0 is about 78 SQMmain about 36 SQM a symmetric spinnaker would be about 110 SQM . My Genoa is 125 % so smaller than usual . But the code 0 fills most of the gaps in the sail wardrobe .I have a asymmetric spinnaker in a sock but it’s not as easy to use the the code O . So I almost never use it .

 

[Zonker]

Good description from UK. Racing sails for downwind are

odd = reaching
even = running
higher numbers = higher winds

Overview Racing Spinnakers Asymmetrical — UK Sailmakers

www.uksailmakers.com

I agree C0 are easier to use but not nearly as effective downwind. However the sail that stays in the locker because it's "Too hard" is not as fast as a compromise one that is used.

If you have a 140% genoa a C0 will not be THAT much bigger.

One idea might be try the whisker pole with the genoa for a bit and see how well it works for you.

 

[fisher2]

If your sailing down wind , for long periods or distance . I go for the main locked on one side and whisker pole; The genny on the other side , that way you have a little lee way, with the wind ..
If I have the sea room and light traffic , broad reach to broad reach . I single hand a lot [also lazy ]: so unfurl the genoa and don't bother with the not furling main .

 

[loneshark64]

If you have a 140% genoa a C0 will not be THAT much bigger.

One idea might be try the whisker pole with the genoa for a bit and see how well it works for you.

thanks I think I will do that for a while

 

[slug zitski]

Whisker pole is a bit of a monster for coastal , daysailing

 

[loneshark64]

Whisker pole is a bit of a monster for coastal , daysailing

I have had spinnaker pole in the past, granted on a smaller boat, thought this would be easier.