Getting a proper bond with epoxy

estarzinger

Super Anarchist
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the small pool of diesel I’ve fed into into the burner for pre-heating often extinguishes the small bit of tissue I’ve lit on fire
There are a couple of better ways to light drip diesel heaters. We use a metal oiling can (the very old fashion type) filled with methylated spirits. A small pump would put a bead of meths on the tip. Light that with a lighter. Then point it into the diesel pot and give a couple big pumps. It is like a flame thrower, big squirts of flaming meths right into the diesel pool. Pretty much 100% success rate, and no chared tissue residu to clean up afterward.

An alternative Other boats have used for very cold high latitudes (like wintering over) is a propane torch with a quite long metal nozzle (some of them have been custom machine shop nozzles and some others used a fitting designed/sold for burning weeds out of sidewalk cracks). You light this and use it to pre-warm up the chimney (which helps draft and keeps the fire going after it is started) and then just point it at the pool of diesel and ignite. We found the oil can method to be simplier/easier but we also only ever wintered in the beagle channel and not the really cold places.

I will endeavor to keep the heaviest loads down at the bottom so that nearly all of the load is just pressing straight downward on the hull
Yea, liquids and anchors should essentially be sitting on the bottom with just brackets holding them in place. The heaviest things we stowed on the shelves were spare anchor lines (300' x 3/4"). I was a bit nervous about that weight at the start but it held up just fine.

Personally, I would not store diesel jugs in the laz. Not worried about fire risk, but about the massive mess it would make if it split or opened somehow at sea. It 'should not' open, but a lot of shit happens that 'should not'. Very hard to clean up, and the smell will be just terrible - would likily make me at least continuously seasick.

Like others above, we also used the 'plastic wrap under the cap' method to minimize spills/drips/smell.
 

Ajax

Super Anarchist
14,809
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Edgewater, MD
Yea, liquids and anchors should essentially be sitting on the bottom with just brackets holding them in place.
My spare anchor and rode are coiled up in an old seabag and strapped to the backside of the galley bulkhead (sitting on the floor of the hull). That stuff will never sit on any kind of shelf or bracket.

Yeah, pros and cons about storing diesel in the laz. A split water jug just drains into the bilge and gets pumped overboard.
 

Jud - s/v Sputnik

Super Anarchist
6,241
1,716
Canada
There are a couple of better ways to light drip diesel heaters. We use a metal oiling can (the very old fashion type) filled with methylated spirits. A small pump would put a bead of meths on the tip. Light that with a lighter. Then point it into the diesel pot and give a couple big pumps. It is like a flame thrower, big squirts of flaming meths right into the diesel pool. Pretty much 100% success rate, and no chared tissue residu to clean up afterward.

An alternative Other boats have used for very cold high latitudes (like wintering over) is a propane torch with a quite long metal nozzle (some of them have been custom machine shop nozzles and some others used a fitting designed/sold for burning weeds out of sidewalk cracks). You light this and use it to pre-warm up the chimney (which helps draft and keeps the fire going after it is started) and then just point it at the pool of diesel and ignite. We found the oil can method to be simplier/easier but we also only ever wintered in the beagle channel and not the really cold places.
I got absolutely paranoid open flames when I squirted methyl alcohol from our old squirt bottle to pre-heat the heater some years ago - it was one of those hockey/sports squirt drink bottles, came with the boat. Unknown to me, alcohol accidentally squirted on a nearby cushion with nylon cover...I’ll spare you the details, it was definitely not a fun scene! So, now I put up with the semi-hassle of lighting the stove with diesel and a square of tissue! :)

I really like the propane idea. Thanks - am filing that away for later! Seems easy to set up something like that. Fortunately, once the heater is lit it generally stay on continuously for days, weeks or more, meaning the hassle of the diesel/tissue square lighting method isn’t too bad.
 
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andykane

Member
462
216
Victoria, BC
The skins on this boat are probably super thick compared to most foam cored boats. On my Islander 34, which is similar age, size, weight, and also foam core, they appear to be 3/16"+ thick.
 

Zonker

Super Anarchist
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Canada
weight placed upon the shelves you add will all be supported by the thin resin glas layer on the inside of your hull. As you bounce around on the waves this weight is going to cause the glass to tend to separate from the core over time which can lead to problems and none the least is potential weakening of that area of the hull.
Nope. Yeah they are bonded to the inside skin but so are bulkheads - and do you worry about them removing the inside skin?

You do not have an issue if the load is properly distributed. The whole hull skin panel acts as one; inner and outer skins and core all together.

Now maybe it could happen but skin peeling off core is HARD to do except in a peel situation (grab a free edge of the skin and start pulling). That is not the same type of loading as just bonding on a shelf to the skin. This is a non-issue.

I'd be curious - who has had jerry jugs leak from anywhere other than a cap? Like splitting or chafing etc. etc. On our first boat they were stored on the foredeck, in front of the cabin trunk. On our catamaran there were dedicated lockers for them near the LCG of the boat. Never had an issue with either location with them leaking. And I much preferred them stowed off the deck!
 
According to Wikipedia these are involved in proper bondage, but I don't see how. First you'll catch hell keeping the fur out of your laminate, then just try getting all the epoxy off of them after you are done...

bonding.png
 
...who has had jerry jugs leak from anywhere other than a cap? Like splitting or chafing etc. etc. ...

Not diesel and not on a boat but I have had every steel jerrycan I ever kept gasoline in while mounted outside on a vehicle eventually develop leaks near the middle. If completely sealed, the can has a significant change in internal pressure going on with the temperature changes. The resultant movement in/out of the sides causes fatigue along the edges of the 'X' brace stamping there. At some point this becomes a small crack that will weep fuel or even spray a pinhole size stream of it if while under pressure. It's happened for me with both the US and the German versions(adopted by NATO). I've had this occur with a multitude of cans over the years. The metal cans have a limited life span in this sort of use due to this.

Have you had gasoline *boil* after opening a well sealed can of it on a hot day? It was a bit unnerving for me.
 

Ajax

Super Anarchist
14,809
3,083
Edgewater, MD
@IHWillys I have two military vehicles and I have the fuel cans to go with them so I totally get what you're saying. I refuse to use metal cans on the boat. I realize that plastic cans have a seam where they're welded together but I've never had one burst or rupture that hadn't been dropped or majorly abused.
 

Zonker

Super Anarchist
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Canada
Pretty hard to even consider steel painted cans on a boat where plastic jerry jugs are so much superior.
 

Chimera

New member
I think this is something you would do if you were transferring significant loads into the hull. Possibly overkill unless he wants to load heavily the shelf.
Yes, he wants to do as little work as possible, who doesn't? Of course, there's never been a problem with building too lightly, right? And what does "heavily" weigh?

Did you read "plan B"?
 

Jim in Halifax

Super Anarchist
1,675
750
Nova Scotia
Then locate crucial places where you want to bond the shelves to the hull, that is, find the mounting points. Cut the inner skin and core, but not the outer skin and remove.
That's madness. As Zonker (who is a NA) pointed out, the outer glass laminates, core, and inner laminates are designed to act as a monolithic structure. Even bulkheads are tabbed to the inner skin in production. Removing the inner skin and core and glassing a structure to the outer skin decreases the design strength of the hull layup. The only time to remove the core and add solid material is when local crushing loads, such as bolting for winches or cleats, is a concern. And that is commonly in less critical areas of the deck and house - not the hull. The only time a cored hull should be cut into is for a through hull when a round hole is cut and then the surrounding core is removed and replaced with epoxy putty, etc. Personally I prefer solid glass hulls but they are typically heavier and more expensive...
 

Panoramix

Super Anarchist
Yes, he wants to do as little work as possible, who doesn't? Of course, there's never been a problem with building too lightly, right? And what does "heavily" weigh?

Did you read "plan B"?
Heavily, that would be some kind of machinery not a few boxes full of useless stuff! Now that I've read @Zonker reply, I think that it would have to be seriously heavy (100s of kilograms ?) to justify such an invasive treatment!
 

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