Getting tough with the anti-vaxxers

Rain Man

Super Anarchist
7,211
2,069
Wet coast.
Ah I see the fat old pussies are back at their keyboards, sailing their basement couches. And it was Grandpa. Can’t wait for the 2022 mid-term election. 
Nice try.  Some serious projection going on here given your history.  Fallen off your diet again have you?

 
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Grog

Anarchist's Anarchist
1,297
880
Germany
When someone asks a question with the word ‘exactly’ in it, you can be assured that they are asking for a level of specificity that will be impossible to meet.  Clever, no?
True, that's the way of the bullshitter.

But clever? No.

Although some of them surely think they are.

And to answer to the unimplied (speling?) question here: I did not respond to that Wess persona. My response was aimed at the passer by reader, rather in hope than expectation, that they might start to look up some facts about medical history, particularly the history of vaccines, if they didn't know already.

 

Marty Gingras

Mid-range Anarchist
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Marty Gingras

Mid-range Anarchist
The developer of the PCR test, Doctor Kary Mullis said openly that this is never what his test was meant for.
He said the test isn't for quantifying --- figuring out how many --- virus particles are in a sample. That's a no-brainer given what PCR does, because it's basically a xerox machine. The PCR test for SARS-CoV-2 (aka 2019-nCoV) is qualitative. That is it's a test for 'presence or absence' of the virus. From the first page of your link: "The CDC 2019-Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV) Real-Time RT-PCR Diagnostic Panel is a real-time RT-PCR test intended for the qualitative detection of nucleic acid from SARS-CoV-2 in upper and lower respiratory specimens."
 
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TheDragon

Super Anarchist
3,076
1,021
East central Illinois
Good grief, do we still have idiots quoting Mullis. He is a wackjob out and out, but I thank him for PCR as without it my research career in molecular biology would have been a lot slower, more tedious, and often times impossible.
 

TheDragon

Super Anarchist
3,076
1,021
East central Illinois
Okay, I have not checked sorryantivaxxer in a long time, forgive me, I've been sailing. This one is too ridiculous for words.

 

Chief Stipe

Member
375
31
Good grief, do we still have idiots quoting Mullis. He is a wackjob out and out, but I thank him for PCR as without it my research career in molecular biology would have been a lot slower, more tedious, and often times impossible.
He isn't alive anymore - so I assume you mean "he WAS a wackjob". However you do give the "wackjob" credit for saving your career. I assume you used the PCR process he developed for its intended purpose not how it was used during the pandemic?

PS: Did Kary Mullis get your Nobel Prize?
 

Chief Stipe

Member
375
31

Citation needed.

It wasn't designed to determine the presence of disease. In simple terms the PCR technique enables the detection of very small amounts of a molecule. The level of detection attainable doesn't mean that there is disease.
 

Marty Gingras

Mid-range Anarchist
It wasn't designed to determine the presence of disease. In simple terms the PCR technique enables the detection of very small amounts of a molecule. The level of detection attainable doesn't mean that there is disease.
Agreed on PCR being able to copy --- and thus allow detection of --- molecules including molecules in small amounts. Sounds like if we disagree it's on how PCR has been used w/regard to the virus named SARS-CoV-2 and the disease named COVID-19. It's been used to detect the virus in people not the disease.
 

Chief Stipe

Member
375
31
Agreed on PCR being able to copy --- and thus allow detection of --- molecules including molecules in small amounts. Sounds like if we disagree it's on how PCR has been used w/regard to the virus named SARS-CoV-2 and the disease named COVID-19. It's been used to detect the virus in people not the disease.
Which was the basis of Mullis's criticism which I initially was targeted at Fauci and his HIV work.

As to the virus being present without the disease where do you draw the line in terms of replication cycles? To quote Mullis if you do enough cycles you'll be able to detect a single molecule.
 

Marty Gingras

Mid-range Anarchist
Which was the basis of Mullis's criticism which I initially was targeted at Fauci and his HIV work.
I've looked pretty thoroughly and didn't find any criticism of Fauci and his HIV work w/regard to use of PCR. I have instead found a lot of folks who don't understand enough about PCR and misinterpret an interview of Mullis.
As to the virus being present without the disease where do you draw the line in terms of replication cycles? To quote Mullis if you do enough cycles you'll be able to detect a single molecule.
Yours is a good 'policy' and/or epidemiology question rather than a science question per se.
 
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Great Red Shark

Super Anarchist
8,401
600
Honolulu
Just last week was informed of a high school friend who has passed away - an DIY affair - who was severely Trumpy and anti-vaxxy and was deeply upset at not being able to work a special gig that required the vax - don't know at all if that was a straw-that-broke-the-camel's-back deal or what but he won't have that problem anymore. Lots of stunned, and very sad folks left behind though.
 

Steam Flyer

Sophisticated Yet Humble
44,304
9,625
Eastern NC

It wasn't designed to determine the presence of disease.

Umm, hey stupid.... if the DNA of the COVID virus is present, then that's exactly what the test will tell you; and it's exactly what you want to know.

What is the difference between the presence of the virus and the presence of disease?
 

Chief Stipe

Member
375
31
Umm, hey stupid.... if the DNA of the COVID virus is present, then that's exactly what the test will tell you; and it's exactly what you want to know.
Why do you want to know that?

What is the difference between the presence of the virus and the presence of disease?
The virus may be present in minuscule amounts that can be detected by the PCR test but not at a level that is contagious nor disease causing. Just for you a simple definition of disease is 'illness or sickness characterised by specific signs or symptoms'.
 

The Main Man

Super Anarchist
1,474
294
Blighty
Okay, I have not checked sorryantivaxxer in a long time, forgive me, I've been sailing. This one is too ridiculous for words.

Holy moly!
 

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