Getting tough with the anti-vaxxers

[Marty Gingras]

I had to look that up! You taught me a new terminology. I'm a pretty solid lumper in that context. I have a background in statistical thermodynamics - canonical ensembles all the way - so that's my inherent bias.

In the context of answering your particular thesis, I was curious how you'd parse it, just to know more about you.

The world needs both lumpers and splitters!

I was being a little glib and lumping like crazy, because Florida is as Republican as they come and not among the poorest states, Blacks weren't the majority of COVID-19 deaths in Florida, and Florida has a poor record (14th worst) w/regard to per capita COVID-19 deaths.

List of U.S. states and territories by income - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Florida: All Race & Ethnicity Data

Historical time series of race and ethnicity data in Florida.

covidtracking.com

U.S. COVID death rate by state 2023 | Statista

As of February 2023, Arizona had the highest COVID death rate in the U.S., with 454 deaths per 100,000 population. Hawaii had the lowest death rate.

www.statista.com

However, your thesis about poverty is right even in Florida:

Poor counties nationwide including FL had higher COVID death rates compared to wealthier counties - Florida Phoenix

This report shows why we must have a moral meeting in the nation’s capital.

floridaphoenix.com

Not going to try to find someone who's parsed voting habits by race in poor counties in Florida, though that would likely address the chicken-or-egg question.

 

[Steam Flyer]

I tend to be more of a splitter, but try to not be dogmatic about it.

Sometimes things need lumping, sometimes things need splitting. The correct engineering approach is to consider the goal first.

 

[Steam Flyer]

Can't you equally say that COVID disproportionately hurt poor states and then just go down the normal class arguments instead?

Archived: Pro-Democrat group says 9 of the 10 poorest states are Republican | PolitiFact

PolitiFact is a fact-checking website that rates the accuracy of claims by elected officials and others on its Truth-O-Meter.

www.politifact.com

Republican states are poor states because Democrats are the pawns of the wealthy elite? Causation vs Correlation and all that?

Personally, I think poverty AND republicans being dorks about not taking the vaccine Trump authorized each contribute to the higher rates. But I also know there's things like Blacks being VERY skeptical about vaccines because of historical bumfuckery also contributed to higher mortality rates in their demographic, as well as access.

The race issue is complex, and made more difficult both by history... if I were black, I would be suspicious of new vaccines, too... and by genetic differences. For example, there is a small but consistent and measurable difference in Paxlovid (the oral Covid medication) effectiveness between races. I don't know if anybody really knows why, but it works better on white Europeans/Euro-descended than Black and Hispanic people.

 

[hasher]

Life works when you believe in your fellow man. I had a few around here. They ate the food. They were not poisoned.

 

[veni vidi vici]

 

[Steam Flyer]

Epoch Times = made-up bible-thumper RWNJ bullshit

 

[Marty Gingras]

Does he seem credible and 'right'? Even Dr. Drew seems to think he's a bit of a kook, a provocateur, and is way out of left field.





Oddly, I could not find any scientific paper documenting the findings from which he's becoming a GETTR celebrity.

 

[Marty Gingras]

Epoch Times = made-up bible-thumper RWNJ bullshit

 

[Steam Flyer]

On the contrary, I can give several anecdotes of a dozen or more women who either were vaccinated while pregnant, or became pregnant very soon after vaccination, that now have lovely healthy babies... including all my nieces (who we thought were never going to get married, but all did).

 

[Chief Stipe]

On the contrary, I can give several anecdotes of a dozen or more women who either were vaccinated while pregnant, or became pregnant very soon after vaccination, that now have lovely healthy babies... including all my nieces (who we thought were never going to get married, but all did).

Did they have the full 3 doses required over the 9 months gestation? Were the vaccines mRNA or others?

 

[Steam Flyer]

Did they have the full 3 doses required over the 9 months gestation? Were the vaccines mRNA or others?

WTF?
Initial vaccination with both Pfizer and Moderna was 2 shots, 30 days apart. Is "mRNA" especially significant?

 

[Marty Gingras]

WTF?
...
Is "mRNA" especially significant?

Chef is just asking the question amirite?

 

[Steam Flyer]

Chef is just asking the question amirite?

There is a big undercurrent of whackoe disinformation that "mRNA" is some kind of Godzilla zombie gene modification experiment. The bible-thumpers are all passing it around, I've even heard it said that the Bible foretells this as an sign of the end times.

Chief has not come right out with that particular brand of kuckoo, but it wouldn't surprise me.

 

[Chief Stipe]

WTF?
Initial vaccination with both Pfizer and Moderna was 2 shots, 30 days apart. Is "mRNA" especially significant?

So they didn't have the boosters?

 

[Marty Gingras]

Yeah, he's not right in the head. He claims to work only with high-risk pregnancies. I like this part from the transcript: ...uh I I have a lot of emotional trauma I have a lot of moral and ethical trauma from uh having to see what I've seen in the devastation and destruction of my pregnant women my pre-born children and my newborn children and women of reproductive age I am I'm very very uh angry at this Administration and the whole political situation...

 

[Steam Flyer]

So they didn't have the boosters?

Not 100% sure on all of them, probably not. They're young and the boosters came a long while later unless you're 70+

Not many pregnant women in that age cohort, but hey dig for the data, you're welcome

Seems to me that an 80% miscarriage rate would have been noticed by the public, and almost certainly would have affected somebody I know in the "30-ish female" category. A lot of women who were putting off having children decided to stop waiting.

 

[Chief Stipe]

Not 100% sure on all of them, probably not. They're young and the boosters came a long while later unless you're 70+

So it is possible that they didn't put their pregnancy at risk by selectively not following the protocol?

 

[Raz'r]

So it is possible that they didn't put their pregnancy at risk by selectively not following the protocol?

Why would they put their pregnancy at risk from Covid? I mean, if they can understand simple statistics that is.

 

[Chief Stipe]

Why would they put their pregnancy at risk from Covid? I mean, if they can understand simple statistics that is.

I know you don't understand this but surely they evaluated the risk of the vaccine vs the risk of Covid vs the risk of the vaccine plus Covid.

 

[Steam Flyer]

So it is possible that they didn't put their pregnancy at risk by selectively not following the protocol?

It's a lot more "possible" that you don't understand what "protocol" is

I know you don't understand this but surely they evaluated the risk of the vaccine vs the risk of Covid vs the risk of the vaccine plus Covid.

I know you don't understand this, but there is no "vs" the risk of covid. There is only the risk of covid, in the presence of vaccination or not.