Getting tough with the anti-vaxxers

Chief Stipe

Member
445
44
If they did, they would get the vaccine.
They wouldn't actually as presumably they were all young women with no co-morbidities.

What's more if they only had two shots of the mRNA vaccines at some stage during their pregnancy they would have had next to zero protection or worse.
 
Last edited:

Raz'r

Super Anarchist
63,118
5,848
De Nile
They wouldn't actually as presumably they were all young women with no co-morbidities.

What's more if they only had two shots of the mRNA vaccines at some stage during their pregnancy they would have had next to zero protection or worse.
Say, I've got no issue with Darwin removing the math-challenged from the gene pool.
 

Chief Stipe

Member
445
44
Say, I've got no issue with Darwin removing the math-challenged from the gene pool.
Thankfully you don't understand math nor have any influence on decision making.

What is the risk for those under 40 from getting Covid? For some age groups influenza is far riskier.
 

Steam Flyer

Sophisticated Yet Humble
45,479
10,230
Eastern NC
Say, I've got no issue with Darwin removing the math-challenged from the gene pool.
Thankfully you don't understand math nor have any influence on decision making.
:LOL: I really like the way you keep using that old standy, "No, -YOU- don't understand" when something zooms over your head. Hey at least you're aware enough to realize you missed it.

... ...
What is the risk for those under 40 from getting Covid? ...

Uh huh. And is the risk of Covid greater, or lower, after getting vaccinated? Let's see the math on this one!
 

Chief Stipe

Member
445
44
:LOL: I really like the way you keep using that old standy, "No, -YOU- don't understand" when something zooms over your head. Hey at least you're aware enough to realize you missed it.



Uh huh. And is the risk of Covid greater, or lower, after getting vaccinated? Let's see the math on this one!
What age group were the women who got pregnant?

The question is does the risk of serious Covid illness outweigh the risk of taking the vaccine for a pregnant woman with no co-morbidities other than being pregnant? Especially given the vaccination doesn't prevent you from catching Covid?

Arguably the two shot women had no significant vaccine immunity as they didn't have the booster.
 

NeedAClew

Super Anarchist
6,135
1,740
USA
Can the GOP keep up the good work in resisting government lies and vaccines? Fingers crossed. Every little bit helps.



E-Z reader article below Study is the NBER link. Trigger warning: math is involved.


More Republicans Died Than Democrats after COVID-19 Vaccines Came Out
November 30, 2022
A new study looks at excess deaths by partisan affiliation in two states during the pandemic.

Since the early days of the COVID-19 pandemic, public health officials have warned that some of us are at higher risk of severe outcomes from the virus, due to factors such as age or preexisting medical conditions.

The new research points to another factor that puts people at greater risk of dying from COVID-19: party affiliation. The study finds that excess deaths during the pandemic were 76% higher among Republicans than Democrats in two states, Ohio and Florida.

What’s more, the partisan gap in death rates increased significantly after vaccines were introduced. The research was conducted by Yale University School of Management’s Paul Goldsmith-Pinkham and Jacob Wallace and Jason L. Schwartz of the Yale School of Public Health.

To Goldsmith-Pinkham, the sharp divergence in excess death rates that emerged in the post-vaccine period “is pretty striking… and the magnitudes are quite large.” While the research doesn’t definitively prove that low vaccine uptake among Republicans explains the mortality gap, “it points to this as a potential mechanism.”

The question of whether and how much party affiliation affects COVID-19 outcomes has been widely debated among public health scholars and isn’t easy to answer. Some research has found that the death toll from COVID-19 has been higher in red counties than blue ones, but analyzing data at the county level makes it hard to be sure that party alone explains the differences. It’s theoretically possible that other factors about those counties, such as weather or average household size or availability of health care, could be more significant contributors to the death rate than how they voted.

Goldsmith-Pinkham and his coauthors decided to take a different approach that would avoid these pitfalls. They gathered nearly 600,000 Ohio and Florida death records from 2018 to 2021 and matched those records to voter registration data from 2017. This allowed them to determine the party affiliation of each person who died. Then, they used data from 2019 as a benchmark to determine expected death rates based on age, time of year, location, and party affiliation. In other words, they calculated how many Republicans and Democrats in a given age bracket and a given county would normally die in a given season. Anything above or below that 2019 “normal” was considered an “excess death.”

The excess death framework had two important strengths: It allowed the researchers to study the effects of political party at an individual rather than geographic level, and it provided a built-in means of accounting for differences of age and location. When the researchers looked at excess deaths before and after the pandemic, the results were sobering.

Tragically, but not surprisingly, both Republicans and Democrats experienced a sudden uptick in mortality during the first year of the pandemic. While excess death rates were slightly higher among Republicans than Democrats, “both are dying at really high rates over this period,” Goldsmith-Pinkham says.

The fates of Republicans and Democrats began to diverge markedly after the introduction of vaccines in April of 2021. Between March 2020 and March 2021, excess death rates for Republicans were 1.6 percentage points higher than for Democrats. After April 2021, the gap widened to 10.6 percentage points.

Does this mean that differing vaccine uptake levels between Republicans and Democrats caused the mortality gap? Goldsmith-Pinkham says this study alone doesn’t prove that’s the case. However, he believes it does offer “pretty good evidence” that vaccines are at least an important part of the story. And if indeed that’s the case, it suggests that policy makers should be looking at vaccine-promoting interventions specifically targeted at Republicans, Goldsmith-Pinkham says: “It gives you a sense of where you should be looking and who you should be targeting if you want to solve some of these problems.”
 

Steam Flyer

Sophisticated Yet Humble
45,479
10,230
Eastern NC
...
Arguably the two shot women had no significant vaccine immunity as they didn't have the booster.

More bullshit fantasy. Go look at the risk numbers for one shot, complete vaccine regimen (2 shots), and successive boosters. Get the numbers and get back to us.
...
Especially given the vaccination doesn't prevent you from catching Covid? ...

No vaccine ever has prevented anyone from "catching" the disease. It's the body's immune system, not magic.

I've said this over and over and over. Will it ever sink in?

...
The question is does the risk of serious Covid illness outweigh the risk of taking the vaccine for a pregnant woman with no co-morbidities other than being pregnant? ..

There is the risk of serious Covid illness, with the vaccine or without it. Unless you go to another planet, there is no such thing as "no risk of Covid."

So the choice is, risk of Covid -with- the vaccine, or risk of Covid with NO vaccine.

I've said this over and over and over. Will it ever sink in?
 

Steam Flyer

Sophisticated Yet Humble
45,479
10,230
Eastern NC
Can the GOP keep up the good work in resisting government lies and vaccines? Fingers crossed. Every little bit helps.



E-Z reader article below Study is the NBER link. Trigger warning: math is involved.


More Republicans Died Than Democrats after COVID-19 Vaccines Came Out
November 30, 2022
.... ...
The fates of Republicans and Democrats began to diverge markedly after the introduction of vaccines in April of 2021. Between March 2020 and March 2021, excess death rates for Republicans were 1.6 percentage points higher than for Democrats. After April 2021, the gap widened to 10.6 percentage points.

Does this mean that differing vaccine uptake levels between Republicans and Democrats caused the mortality gap? Goldsmith-Pinkham says this study alone doesn’t prove that’s the case. However, he believes it does offer “pretty good evidence” that vaccines are at least an important part of the story. ...

It shows that increasingly, Democrats and Republican don't just live in different countries, but live in different universes.

It's been going on for a long time, look at the range of statistics for red states vs. blue states... life expectancy, standard of living, level of education, obesity, literacy, infant mortality (think of your grandkids... now think of your grandkids dying of a preventable illness... that's Republican)...

and apparently ~40% of USAnians think this is good & fine and the way they want to push all of us. Well, no, it's just that they're willing to suffer if they think those goddam smarty-pants libby-rulls have to suffer too.

Remember the definition of a Trump supporter- a person who is happy to have Trump shit on him, as long as there is a Democrat nearby who has to smell it.

And while you'd think that putting death into the equation would change the balance, it doesn't. Because they'd rather go to Heaven than have a Democrat President.
 

Raz'r

Super Anarchist
63,118
5,848
De Nile
Can the GOP keep up the good work in resisting government lies and vaccines? Fingers crossed. Every little bit helps.



E-Z reader article below Study is the NBER link. Trigger warning: math is involved.


More Republicans Died Than Democrats after COVID-19 Vaccines Came Out
November 30, 2022
A new study looks at excess deaths by partisan affiliation in two states during the pandemic.


Since the early days of the COVID-19 pandemic, public health officials have warned that some of us are at higher risk of severe outcomes from the virus, due to factors such as age or preexisting medical conditions.

The new research points to another factor that puts people at greater risk of dying from COVID-19: party affiliation. The study finds that excess deaths during the pandemic were 76% higher among Republicans than Democrats in two states, Ohio and Florida.

What’s more, the partisan gap in death rates increased significantly after vaccines were introduced. The research was conducted by Yale University School of Management’s Paul Goldsmith-Pinkham and Jacob Wallace and Jason L. Schwartz of the Yale School of Public Health.

To Goldsmith-Pinkham, the sharp divergence in excess death rates that emerged in the post-vaccine period “is pretty striking… and the magnitudes are quite large.” While the research doesn’t definitively prove that low vaccine uptake among Republicans explains the mortality gap, “it points to this as a potential mechanism.”

The question of whether and how much party affiliation affects COVID-19 outcomes has been widely debated among public health scholars and isn’t easy to answer. Some research has found that the death toll from COVID-19 has been higher in red counties than blue ones, but analyzing data at the county level makes it hard to be sure that party alone explains the differences. It’s theoretically possible that other factors about those counties, such as weather or average household size or availability of health care, could be more significant contributors to the death rate than how they voted.

Goldsmith-Pinkham and his coauthors decided to take a different approach that would avoid these pitfalls. They gathered nearly 600,000 Ohio and Florida death records from 2018 to 2021 and matched those records to voter registration data from 2017. This allowed them to determine the party affiliation of each person who died. Then, they used data from 2019 as a benchmark to determine expected death rates based on age, time of year, location, and party affiliation. In other words, they calculated how many Republicans and Democrats in a given age bracket and a given county would normally die in a given season. Anything above or below that 2019 “normal” was considered an “excess death.”

The excess death framework had two important strengths: It allowed the researchers to study the effects of political party at an individual rather than geographic level, and it provided a built-in means of accounting for differences of age and location. When the researchers looked at excess deaths before and after the pandemic, the results were sobering.

Tragically, but not surprisingly, both Republicans and Democrats experienced a sudden uptick in mortality during the first year of the pandemic. While excess death rates were slightly higher among Republicans than Democrats, “both are dying at really high rates over this period,” Goldsmith-Pinkham says.

The fates of Republicans and Democrats began to diverge markedly after the introduction of vaccines in April of 2021. Between March 2020 and March 2021, excess death rates for Republicans were 1.6 percentage points higher than for Democrats. After April 2021, the gap widened to 10.6 percentage points.

Does this mean that differing vaccine uptake levels between Republicans and Democrats caused the mortality gap? Goldsmith-Pinkham says this study alone doesn’t prove that’s the case. However, he believes it does offer “pretty good evidence” that vaccines are at least an important part of the story. And if indeed that’s the case, it suggests that policy makers should be looking at vaccine-promoting interventions specifically targeted at Republicans, Goldsmith-Pinkham says: “It gives you a sense of where you should be looking and who you should be targeting if you want to solve some of these problems.”
Darwin works. Slowly, but he works.
 

Raz'r

Super Anarchist
63,118
5,848
De Nile
So the choice is, risk of Covid -with- the vaccine, or risk of Covid with NO vaccine.

I've said this over and over and over. Will it ever sink in?
He does not understand this. He thinks it's "risk of vaccine" vs "no risk"

He WILL get Covid. We all will. Our outcomes depend on our immune reaction, and all data show that a vaccine-primed immune system has better outcomes than one that is not primed.
 

Chief Stipe

Member
445
44
Can the GOP keep up the good work in resisting government lies and vaccines? Fingers crossed. Every little bit helps.

https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w30512/w30512.pdf
E-Z reader article below Study is the NBER link. Trigger warning: math is involved
What a BS piece of research. Of course you lot overlook the flaws in its methodology. I wonder why they didn't use California or New York in the "research"?
 

Chief Stipe

Member
445
44
More bullshit fantasy. Go look at the risk numbers for one shot, complete vaccine regimen (2 shots), and successive boosters. Get the numbers and get back to us.
No BS but I guess going by hiur Darwin theory they were just lucky Republicans? If they didn't have the the three shots during their pregnancy then they didn't have the marginal protection that the vaccine supposedly offers.
 

Raz'r

Super Anarchist
63,118
5,848
De Nile
No BS but I guess going by hiur Darwin theory they were just lucky Republicans? If they didn't have the the three shots during their pregnancy then they didn't have the marginal protection that the vaccine supposedly offers.
still misunderstanding how to the vaccine works, eh? get the first 2. Wait 6 months, get the booster. unless pregnancies take a lot longer in your world. Given you understanding of vaccines, I bet you don't know the avg pregnancy length either.
 

Chief Stipe

Member
445
44
So the choice is, risk of Covid -with- the vaccine, or risk of Covid with NO vaccine.

I've said this over and over and over. Will it ever sink in?
Finally you are starting to see the point. So we should quantify the risk of Covid by age group vs the risk of the vaccine + Covid (as we agree that the vaccine is useless at stopping transmission). If we quantify the risk then it is lumancy to vaccinated healthy children.
 

Chief Stipe

Member
445
44
still misunderstanding how to the vaccine works, eh? get the first 2. Wait 6 months, get the booster. unless pregnancies take a lot longer in your world. Given you understanding of vaccines, I bet you don't know the avg pregnancy length either.
No misunderstanding the SCIENCE nor pregnancy length. The recommended spacing of the vaccine plus booster is well within 9 months. Some of your ilk had 4+ shots within 12 months!
 

Chief Stipe

Member
445
44
still misunderstanding how to the vaccine works, eh? get the first 2. Wait 6 months, get the booster. unless pregnancies take a lot longer in your world. Given you understanding of vaccines, I bet you don't know the avg pregnancy length either.
No misunderstanding the SCIENCE nor pregnancy length. The recommended spacing of the vaccine plus booster is well within 9 months. Some of your ilk had 4+ shots within 12 months!
 




Top