GGR 2022

Your Mom

Super Anarchist
2,452
497
San Antonio, TX
So... the 25 l they can use without penalty... is that for charging batteries in neutral, or are they allowed to occasionally motor a bit in gear? (Excluding rescue situations like Kirsten's)
 

trisail

Anarchist
508
564
So... the 25 l they can use without penalty... is that for charging batteries in neutral, or are they allowed to occasionally motor a bit in gear? (Excluding rescue situations like Kirsten's)
Good morning,
The prop shafts are not sealed.
They can use fuel as they want to.
The boats leave the docks with full tanks. On their return the tanks are topped up again. Anything over 25 litres going into the tank take a time penalty.

So the first 25 litres come for free. You can use it as you please. But keep in mind the boats are required to motor out to the start and motor back into the Marina at the end. No sailing allowed in the river at Les Sables d'Olonne. Boats are not towed out or back in.

So that, and a bit for ticking the engine over occasionaly over an 8 month period just about takes care of your 25 litres and leave very little for motoring or battery charging before the time penalty clicks in. The time penalty per liter of fuel used escapes me at present, but it is rather severe.

The sailors are heavily into solar, water generators and wind turbines for energy.
 

littlechay

Super Anarchist
1,139
520
Nelson
Is an electric engine allowed? If it is you could have it constantly spinning away a couple 100s watts on solar panels :eek:
That isn't practical. They dont have much room to mount solar panels in a useful, safe, and seaman like manner so there is no excess solar, hence the Watt & Sea generators.
 

GlennP

New member
49
47
PNW
ok, If I did my maths correctly, (never a good assumption) a typical electric motor for a 20,000# sailboat would need about 4kw power input to run a motor capable of moving the boat at 5 kts, in a calm sea state. so around 20 plus 200 watt solar panels.

on a light hearted note, Maybe you could wire them all up together and hoist to the masthead like a giant, clanking, aluminium framed, silicon wafer wind sail … an electronic Genoa. However, to qualify for the GGR, you would have to hoist it with a massive 1.5” diameter 1968 three strand manilla or hemp halyard to stay within the sailing rules…
 

Joakim

Super Anarchist
1,482
113
Finland
a 20,000# sailboat would need about 4kw power input to run a motor capable of moving the boat at 5 kts, in a calm sea state. so around 20 plus 200 watt solar panels.
Aren't they "only" 7 tonnes + some gear. Probably 3 kW is enough and maybe only 1 kW for 4 kts.

You can integrate flexible solar panels into sails quite nicely and you have batteries. Thus you don't need full power from panels.

But surely you are not allowed to do that.
 

Potter

Super Anarchist
2,119
359
Aren't they "only" 7 tonnes + some gear. Probably 3 kW is enough and maybe only 1 kW for 4 kts.

You can integrate flexible solar panels into sails quite nicely and you have batteries. Thus you don't need full power from panels.

But surely you are not allowed to do that.
Solar Panels are good if they are better than 20% efficient, on a good day. Flexible panels are significnatly worse. Then add in the angle of the sun when in the Southern Ocean, and this is a complete non starter.
 

littlechay

Super Anarchist
1,139
520
Nelson
Solar Panels are good if they are better than 20% efficient, on a good day. Flexible panels are significnatly worse. Then add in the angle of the sun when in the Southern Ocean, and this is a complete non starter.
Pretty good solar angles where they are. They are not in the Southern Ocean and not far south at all, barely into the 40s and it is close to the solstice. But you are right it is a non-starter wherever they are.
 

Joakim

Super Anarchist
1,482
113
Finland
Solar Panels are good if they are better than 20% efficient, on a good day. Flexible panels are significnatly worse. Then add in the angle of the sun when in the Southern Ocean
The panels in sails work the best when sun is low. This boat has 1 kW solar panels in mainsail (49 m2). Plenty of space for more. You don't need to use the motor at 3 kW nor at 1 kW when you have wind.

But as said, it's not allowed and no-one even has an electric motor in GGR.
1670414298751.png
 

harrygee

Member
391
121
Tasmania
According to the tracker, Kirsten sailed within 0.2 nautical miles of the no-go zone before veering away.

That's pretty amazing navigating in the circumstances.

If it was intentional.
 

tama_manu

Member
417
37
SF Bay
Pretty good solar angles where they are. They are not in the Southern Ocean and not far south at all, barely into the 40s and it is close to the solstice. But you are right it is a non-starter wherever they are.
On summer days at latitude 38 North (SF), my 2 small solar panels at 24 volts with 90 watts each, fill banks of 8 group 31 AGM batteries in just over a day. With no wind this could spin my 48 volt motor to move my 5 ton boat at least 15 miles, maybe 20, per day. That would be a substantial advantage in light wind days, and it for sure moves me out of windless areas in real life application.

We would have to break out the slide rule to see if the weight and complexity are worth it. There is enough real estate on these boats for such panels, even flexible deck mounts. Definitely outside the rules, and of course this was a non-starter in 1968.
 

littlechay

Super Anarchist
1,139
520
Nelson
On summer days at latitude 38 North (SF), my 2 small solar panels at 24 volts with 90 watts each, fill banks of 8 group 31 AGM batteries in just over a day. With no wind this could spin my 48 volt motor to move my 5 ton boat at least 15 miles, maybe 20, per day. That would be a substantial advantage in light wind days, and it for sure moves me out of windless areas in real life application.

We would have to break out the slide rule to see if the weight and complexity are worth it. There is enough real estate on these boats for such panels, even flexible deck mounts. Definitely outside the rules, and of course this was a non-starter in 1968.
That sounds about right, for 50% discharged. Those panels in full sun could recharge your batts. But with, most likely, only one producing full power due to shading when sailing it would be a struggle :) The Watt and Sea that most of them have is much more efficient, when there is wind!
 

littlechay

Super Anarchist
1,139
520
Nelson
The panels in sails work the best when sun is low. This boat has 1 kW solar panels in mainsail (49 m2). Plenty of space for more. You don't need to use the motor at 3 kW nor at 1 kW when you have wind.

But as said, it's not allowed and no-one even has an electric motor in GGR.
View attachment 558299
Sure, but very unproven technology so far. I very much doubt that those would handle a thrashing around the marble.
 

Kolibri

Member
490
577
Haleiwa, HI
Recent experience using a ElectricYachts QuietTorque 10 electric motor (equivalent to a ~18 hp diesel) with a 300 Ahr, 48V LFP battery system comprised of 12V, 100Ahr Battle Born batteries along with 3 SunPower 110W solar panels while crossing from San Francisco to Oahu in a 30ft, 11,500lb, full keel sailboat....no you can't continually motor sail with the prop turning at ~900 RPM with this setup. We did motor sail for several hours when becalmed on two separate days so we could get ahead of weather fronts, but we then needed a few days of good sunshine to fully recharge the batteries. Sure we didn't have optimum placement of solar panels relative to potential shading, but using the motor continually was far from being our plan. We did run the motor in "regen mode" a few times during the crossing to charge the batteries, but it was mainly to slow the boat down a bit when the wind was 25 knots and above. I also have two 50W panels to keep the 2 batteries for the 12V house system topped off. We never had a shortage on the house side.

If you want to do continual motor sailing with an electric motor you will need a diesel or gas powered generator, more solar, and/or a wind generator. Not sure why you want to continually motor sail, but to each their own.

IMG_4825 cr.jpg
 
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Tunznath

New member
16
4

Tapio Lehtinen: Lessons from my Golden Globe Rescue​

Just read the article, nowhere does it say anything about smoke signal flares, are they not used anymore, I had about 4 or 5 on my boat, Lso highlights people never having shot flares before, luckily I had in the military and also during my time with the NSRI.
 

littlechay

Super Anarchist
1,139
520
Nelson
Just read the article, nowhere does it say anything about smoke signal flares, are they not used anymore, I had about 4 or 5 on my boat, Lso highlights people never having shot flares before, luckily I had in the military and also during my time with the NSRI.
Smoke is used when rescue is in sight to ensure that they have sighted you. Same for parachute flares. You only have a few, conserve them and use them wisely.
 




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