GGR 2022

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ISTR that several of the boats had problems with this gear last time too. I have never liked it, it just doesn't look mechanically up to the task to me. I know that people like this design because it offers a backup rudder in the even the main one fails but what is the point when they fall off before the main rudder. Better to have a system that steers with the main rudder and plan to rig an emergency rudder with parts that are carried down below. IMO

I noticed it seems no one is running a Monitor this year. Perhaps due to Hydrovane being a sponsor or due to the failures in the 18’ GGR? Supposedly Scanmar “fixed” whatever failed last time, no link but seem to remember reading it.
 

low bum

Member
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Tennessee
Still gridlock off the coast of Spain. Tapio is looking like wise old Gandalf now, seemingly free and clear and heading south. Predictwind shows the wind moving up more westerly so he should be good to go.
 

littlechay

Super Anarchist
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Nelson
New video tour about PRB Rustler 36.


Interesting. My boat is set up in a very similar way. Two winches in the cockpit, one under the dodger, I have two on the mast and one on the boom for the reefing lines ( I tried bringing it back to the cockpit but didn't like it ). I like his dodger, prettier than mine ;) but similar in function with the zip up/down clears. I have an Aries windvane and no Watt & Sea (one day I'll save the pennies or invent my own version). Pretty decent setup down below.

The only thing that I would have insisted on doing differently is moving the electrical panel onto the centerline; which keeps it out of the water in the event of a knockdown. Almost every production boat fails this test!!!!!

Good effort .... hope he gets the windvane fixed and gets back in the race ... a few hundred miles is nothing at this stage provided he can catch up before they turn left under the South Atlantic high. The ice boundry removes almost all chance of using tactics to pass until they round the Horn.
 

OPAL

Member
266
238
Hard to catch a break with this years weather...

DANIELLE.JPG
 

Schakel

Dayboat sailor
FcNG6luWYAI5LqX.jpeg

Damien Guillou returned to Sable d'Ollone for repairs on his self steering vane.
Interview with him: He will return to the race as soon as possible.
Twitter gave him the remark it will be like Michel Desjoyeaux in the vendee globe 2008.
He won eventually. Difference is Michel had 40 hours drop back. Damien will be five days behind if not more..
 

low bum

Member
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Is the mount really a weak point with the Hydrovane? I've never heard that before, and to me the mounting struts look almost comically massive. Now that this has happened I've seen several people say "Yeah, this is why I don't have one." It might also be the $6000+ too?
 

low bum

Member
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216
Tennessee
OK. So does Damien Guillou have his backstay and the Hydrovane both attached to the same plate? I don't see any other backstays. Am I seeing it wrong?

Capture.JPG
 
7
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Is the mount really a weak point with the Hydrovane? I've never heard that before, and to me the mounting struts look almost comically massive. Now that this has happened I've seen several people say "Yeah, this is why I don't have one." It might also be the $6000+ too?
My cruising friends and I have always asked that same question. Its also why I asked on the last page about no Monitors being used. The Scanmar unit seems to have more spread out mounting points. It’ll be interesting to hear what the actual failure was.

Races like this are gold for sailors like me on old offshore boats. If gears gonna fail, it’ll fail in this race. Kinda like the drouge failure on Susie Goodalls boat in the 18’ GGR. Failure traced to using knots instead of splices on the bridle. AA
 

longy

Overlord of Anarchy
6,768
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San Diego
Backstay adjustable turnbuckle attaches to a ss strap that bends around the hull/deck edge & runs down the transom. (possibly inside the transom?)
Self steering is mounted to a plate that goes around strap to further into deck to allow for through bolts on the inside edges
I would have doubled up on the rudder gudgeons/pintles
 

longy

Overlord of Anarchy
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1,126
San Diego
Rudder may also be pinned at the bottom. I can't be bothered figuring this all out, as I'm not impressed with the whole race concept.
 

trisail

Anarchist
500
539
Damien's boat.

The chainplate for the back stay runs down the transom and is bolted through the transom.
The flat plate at the top secures the top - end fitting of the Hydrovane rudder stock.
The bolt holding the starboard, bottom fitting of the Hydrovane's two bracing legs, failed.

I'm surprised and sorry for Damien that he suffered this setback because his boat looked by far the best prepared in the whole fleet.
Damien is a professional boat preperator working in the industry, setting up IMOCAs. So he definately knows his way around what is required for this kind of event.

Just days before the start, Guy Waits who also uses a Hydrovane noted that the one bottom mounting fitting on his transom had a crack running through it. He unbolted and replaced it from the Marina pontoon with great difficuly.
12 of the 16 boats have Hydrovanes on the stern.

IMG_20220825_113056.jpg
 

trisail

Anarchist
500
539
Graham Dalton's boat, also a Rustler 36, stern and off centre mounted Hydrovane.
This is Jean Luc vd Heede's old boat. Graham did not set sail due to health reasons.

IMG_20220824_091941.jpg
 
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littlechay

Super Anarchist
1,119
504
Nelson
Is the mount really a weak point with the Hydrovane? I've never heard that before, and to me the mounting struts look almost comically massive. Now that this has happened I've seen several people say "Yeah, this is why I don't have one." It might also be the $6000+ too?
It looks problematic to me. It is steering the whole boat, not using the main rudder. So all the forces of a normal rudder are being transferred to, mostly those two bottom brackets. The end of those two arms where they fix to the transom is a kind of universal joint arrangement designed that way so that it can be supplied as a universal kit. The fitting relies on small mounting faces and one bolt. The top of the unit is fixed to the top of the transom (on these boats), the forces generated by the unit, and by the sea, will cause the bottom arms to flex; which in turn will cause movement in the joint to the bottom transom brackets. It needs a custom solid fitting there that can't rotate etc..

In my opinion, and I'm and electronics engineer, small boat sailor, not a mechanical engineer ;)

Edit: I just found this explanation on Facebook. The bolts that hold the bottom arms to the brackets on the transom failed. It could be crevice corrosion but they look clean so I am sticking with my theory of the flex in the system causing movement in all directions. This puts a lever action (tension/torsion) on the bolts rather than just shear.
 
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trisail

Anarchist
500
539
Noah's Jest. Another Rustler.
Edward from Canada took no chances with his prep and set up his Rustler with a second Hydrovane, ready to go.
Unfortunately Edward returned to Les Sables d'Olonne today and have decided not to continue.

A pitty, because he came well prepared with 2 solo Atlantic crossings with his boat.

IMG_20220826_110313.jpg
 

littlechay

Super Anarchist
1,119
504
Nelson
Noah's Jest. Another Rustler.
Edward from Canada took no chances with his prep and set up his Rustler with a second Hydrovane, ready to go.
Unfortunately Edward returned to Les Sables d'Olonne today and have decided not to continue.

A pitty, because he came well prepared with 2 solo Atlantic crossings with his boat.

View attachment 540143
That is a very strange setup. Looks as if he didn't expect the rudder to fall off as both gears are linked to the one rudder. I don't see much advantage to this ???
 

harrygee

Member
385
119
Tasmania
That does look weird.

At a wild guess, it looks as if he's attached his W & S generating gear to an offset bracket, offset to get the right immersion.

It makes for a busy transom.

Some of the installations have a mounting bracket in the middle of the transom, which would not normally be expected to take a load like that but these boats are probably overbuilt to buggery. It's the forlorn 1/4" shackle that ends the round the world race.

Simon Cerwan is still hugging the coast, six miles off, an hour or so if the wind swings and the windvane decides that an around the world is more trouble than it's worth. His only "safe" tack in the last few days, where he was headed out and could afford to oversleep, was 16 miles.

He's going well though.

Back to the Hydrovanes, I wonder if they're popular because they're an efficient foil, compared with the horrible angled keel-hung rudders, which would be less horrible when centred.

Probably not, probably financial considerations and sponsorship.

I'm a fan of Blondie Hasler's brilliant servo-pendulum system, so simple in operation, so powerful. Clever.

We may soon see which system the orcas prefer.
 

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