Girl with patreon account goes sailing in hot place

[accnick]

Production boats all suck. All of them. They are built by factory workers in a factory. No boatbuilders involved. They are cheap. And that means corners are cut. They are not suitable for sailing across oceans. I have spent much of my life sailing production boats across oceans. It's not what they are designed and built for.

That's a gross over-generalization. You must be sailing really crappy production boats that were not fit for purpose. When we were out cruising, most of the boats doing what we were doing were production boats of one type or another. Sure, there were some I wouldn't take out of sight of land, but that was because they were crap boats, whether they were production boats or not.

Maybe Bob Perry could chime in on this. He has designed any number of production boats that have done a lot of serious cruising.

Are you lumping boats like Hallberg-Rassy, Swan, Hinckley, Oyster, and a lot of others into the "production boats suck" category?

 

[Zonker]

There are yards in Oz where you can do your own work but for obvious reasons I'm not saying who & where they are...

In 2013 I hauled out and did my own work at the yard near the mouth of the Brisbane River, in the Hemmant area. They had a little travelift and a great big one for commercial vessels.

And in 2014 here in Mackay. Nobody cared about me replacing a cutless bearing or painting the bottom.

 

[jmh2002]

Production boats all suck. All of them. They are built by factory workers in a factory. No boatbuilders involved. They are cheap. And that means corners are cut. They are not suitable for sailing across oceans. I have spent much of my life sailing production boats across oceans. It's not what they are designed and built for.

That's a gross over-generalization.

You are right, it is a gross over-generalisation - BUT if prospective buyers - especially the less experienced ones coming into the market these days - take that as a starting point hopefully their approach will be far more clear eyed and prudent.

The Leopard saga posted above is a good example. Leopard are a well known production boat builder with hundreds of cats built, sold, and sailing. But as Zonker said in another thread about that situation, it's "just shit construction basically".

And he is right too. A new owner buying a production boat should be able to expect at least basic standards, fit for purpose - not basic shit construction.

I know that if I was buying a production boat things like hull deck join, keel attachment, forward cross beams, rudder attachment, etc, etc, would all be on my radar.

But I (and many of the people here) have the experience to know about this stuff, whereas less experienced 'new to sailing' buyers would just expect that basic stuff is done right in the first place.

After all, who would buy a new production car expecting the wheels to start becoming detached in the first year of ownership?

 

[TheDragon]

In 2013 I hauled out and did my own work at the yard near the mouth of the Brisbane River, in the Hemmant area. They had a little travelift and a great big one for commercial vessels.

View attachment 581736
And in 2014 here in Mackay. Nobody cared about me replacing a cutless bearing or painting the bottom.

View attachment 581737

Did either require insurance? I need to find a marina or yard in Australia where I can leave my boat in November and I am unable to get insurance. I found only one in New Zealand, Whangarei Riverside.

 

[TheDragon]

The vast majority of boats I saw in the S Pacific last year were production boats, as mine is. It is a shame that quality appears to have slipped at Leopard/ RobertsonCaine. I went through the canal with a Leopard 48, two American families of 10 aboard, from about a decade ago, then saw them again in the Marquesas, Tuamotus, Tahiti, and finally Fiji. The boat was magnificent and I heard of no such issues with it. They sold it, Wild Tribe, in Fiji for 500k and returned to San Fran.

 

[Russell Brown]

In 2013 I hauled out and did my own work at the yard near the mouth of the Brisbane River, in the Hemmant area. They had a little travelift and a great big one for commercial vessels.

View attachment 581736
And in 2014 here in Mackay. Nobody cared about me replacing a cutless bearing or painting the bottom.

View attachment 581737

What about Monty's on the Cabolture river? I did my time there. Ate a bunch of mud crabs before finding out that it was the most polluted river in Australia.
Had an extremely close call with a Brown snake and more close calls with some
locals. great boat yard, but sailing away from there was like being re-born.

 

[Zonker]

When we were at St. Helena in 2016 we visited a Leopard 40 being delivered to the Caribbean. The delivery skipper and one of the crew had taken a 44 (46?) from S.Africa to Thailand the year previously. The big front flat window popped out half way across the Indian Ocean. Interior got really, really wet for weeks... So in 2015 they were building shit.

Yes, I had insurance. Australia commonly wants $5M but accepted my overseas 1M liability

 

[kiwin]

When we were at St. Helena in 2016 we visited a Leopard 40 being delivered to the Caribbean. The delivery skipper and one of the crew had taken a 44 (46?) from S.Africa to Thailand the year previously. The big front flat window popped out half way across the Indian Ocean. Interior got really, really wet for weeks... So in 2015 they were building shit.

Yes, I had insurance. Australia commonly wants $5M but accepted my overseas 1M liability

Almost everywhere in Australia needs $10M insurance these days ..

 

[kiwin]

That's a gross over-generalization. You must be sailing really crappy production boats that were not fit for purpose. When we were out cruising, most of the boats doing what we were doing were production boats of one type or another. Sure, there were some I wouldn't take out of sight of land, but that was because they were crap boats, whether they were production boats or not.

Maybe Bob Perry could chime in on this. He has designed any number of production boats that have done a lot of serious cruising.

Are you lumping boats like Hallberg-Rassy, Swan, Hinckley, Oyster, and a lot of others into the "production boats suck" category?

Of course it's a gross over generalisation. They are almost always the most fun.
To be a little more clear, I am talking about what most people would regard as the common production boats : Hunter, Beneteau, Jenneau, Bavaria, Hanse, Dehler, Fontain Pajot, Leopard, Lagoon and quite a few others. Few people would regard an Oyster as a production boat.
The problems I have seen on boats I have delivered include bulkheads not glassed in, hull-deck joints failing, too many steering issues to detail, emergency tillers that could never work, hatches that were not sealed to the boat, windows that fell out, bulkheads that buckled and broke.....and so on.....
I have learned to back off very early sailing these boats. Many are not fit for purpose and have wholly inadequate build quality. I have delivered many Beneteaus over the years and a large proportion of them have had issues with the steering...maybe as much as 25% or more.
And dont get me started on how they attach keels to many of the monohulls.....

 

[Fah Kiew Tu]

Of course it's a gross over generalisation. They are almost always the most fun.
To be a little more clear, I am talking about what most people would regard as the common production boats : Hunter, Beneteau, Jenneau, Bavaria, Hanse, Dehler, Fontain Pajot, Leopard, Lagoon and quite a few others. Few people would regard an Oyster as a production boat.
The problems I have seen on boats I have delivered include bulkheads not glassed in, hull-deck joints failing, too many steering issues to detail, emergency tillers that could never work, hatches that were not sealed to the boat, windows that fell out, bulkheads that buckled and broke.....and so on.....
I have learned to back off very early sailing these boats. Many are not fit for purpose and have wholly inadequate build quality. I have delivered many Beneteaus over the years and a large proportion of them have had issues with the steering...maybe as much as 25% or more.
And dont get me started on how they attach keels to many of the monohulls.....

Have you ever considered that the problem may just not be the boats.....?

FKT (ducking & running for cover...)

 

[AnIdiot]

...To be a little more clear, I am talking about what most people would regard as the common production boats : ... Few people would regard an Oyster as a production boat.
..
... Many are not fit for purpose and have wholly inadequate build quality. ...

I get the impression that few people cross oceans; could it be argued that they are fit for purpose, where the purpose is coastal cruising, weekending, a week or two aboard for summer holidays somewhere sunny?

Of course, the boat needs to be able to get to where it's needed. Best to get a professional in for a delivery, someone with the experience and skills to get it there safely.

For the car analogy, people rarely buy a production motorhome and set off across the Kalahari.

 

[TheDragon]

End of a sailing YouTube channel. In the marina where I bought my boat.

 

[kiwin]

I get the impression that few people cross oceans; could it be argued that they are fit for purpose, where the purpose is coastal cruising, weekending, a week or two aboard for summer holidays somewhere sunny?

Of course, the boat needs to be able to get to where it's needed. Best to get a professional in for a delivery, someone with the experience and skills to get it there safely.

For the car analogy, people rarely buy a production motorhome and set off across the Kalahari.

That's exactly right. In sheltered water with many people on board for a short time....perfect. Most of the cruising boats I see that are crossing oceans however are production boats. And of course you CAN do it in anything. But most production boats are not really up to the job ....but they are cheap. And if that was what I could afford I absolutely would go in a production boat. I would however spend alot of time and a little material reinforcing parts of it. It's amazing what some judiciously applied G10, plywood, glass and epoxy will do.

 

[kiwin]

Have you ever considered that the problem may just not be the boats.....?

FKT (ducking & running for cover...)

I have had lots of time at sea to consider exactly that....and no it's not me. And also...you can run but you can't hide. I am back in Hobart this afternoon so look out...

 

[accnick]

Of course it's a gross over generalisation. They are almost always the most fun.
To be a little more clear, I am talking about what most people would regard as the common production boats : Hunter, Beneteau, Jenneau, Bavaria, Hanse, Dehler, Fontain Pajot, Leopard, Lagoon and quite a few others. Few people would regard an Oyster as a production boat.
The problems I have seen on boats I have delivered include bulkheads not glassed in, hull-deck joints failing, too many steering issues to detail, emergency tillers that could never work, hatches that were not sealed to the boat, windows that fell out, bulkheads that buckled and broke.....and so on.....
I have learned to back off very early sailing these boats. Many are not fit for purpose and have wholly inadequate build quality. I have delivered many Beneteaus over the years and a large proportion of them have had issues with the steering...maybe as much as 25% or more.
And dont get me started on how they attach keels to many of the monohulls.....

It is true that most production boats are not designed and built for crossing oceans. It is also true that probably not one in a hundred production boats will ever attempt to cross an ocean.

The problem is that most people can't necessarily differentiate between the characteristics of a boat designed to cross oceans and one meant for coastal cruising. Most of them sort of look alike if you don't know what to look for.

 

[Fah Kiew Tu]

I have had lots of time at sea to consider exactly that....and no it's not me. And also...you can run but you can't hide. I am back in Hobart this afternoon so look out...

Hmmm. Might be time to go sailing...

We're probably around until Easter then depending on the weather gone for a few days. You can come & observe progress on the workshop extension.

FKT

 

[Dogscout]

I sailed my production boat across the Atlantic and by the time I sail it across the pacific, you will still be arguing that I can't.

 

[dacapo]

I sailed my production boat across the Atlantic and by the time I sail it across the pacific, you will still be arguing that I can't.

This is kind of a production boat. This is sailing around the Horn.

 

[Fah Kiew Tu]

I sailed my production boat across the Atlantic and by the time I sail it across the pacific, you will still be arguing that I can't.

Nobody is really arguing that you can't - more like, a lot (most??) production boats aren't designed for it.

People can and have floated (sort of sailed) rafts from Central/South America to further than where you are. William Willis for example.

Pick your weather window and with a modicum of luck you'll never get really bad conditions at sea to test the boat. And of course if you're SOL it doesn't matter what you are in, you're still fucked. Whale collisions for example.

FKT

 

[kiwin]

I sailed my production boat across the Atlantic and by the time I sail it across the pacific, you will still be arguing that I can't.

I said precisely the opposite. I myself have sailed at least 11 transatlantics and twice across the Pacific on production boats plus countless other trips long and short. I said they suck.