Girl with patreon account goes sailing in hot place

TheDragon

Super Anarchist
3,538
1,579
East central Illinois
Excellent point.
I was a little bit excited by that product, the first time I saw it. But I cook and bake a fair amount, and after eight months on board, I'm still surprised by how little propane I use. Although I'm cooking for one, not a crew of six, so maybe not all that surprising. I've changed out one of the ten pound cylinders in that time. Oh, and maybe three or four of the little bbq cans. (But some of those might have been due to not getting the valve closed fully.)

BTW, there are much cheaper, if not quite as polished, versions of the vacuum solar oven available. You can even buy the tubes and roll your own if so inclined.
When I bought my boat in Panama there was a propane tank connected up, and a spare. The gauge at the tank showed it to be near empty. I took it to a local guy who fills tanks and he picked it up and said it was nearly full and the gauge was wrong. I was still using it when I got to Fiji six months later, gauge stlll shows near empty. Who knows how much longer it will go before I need to go to the spare.
 

Kris Cringle

Super Anarchist
3,589
3,339

Amazing interview!


That was a good piece. Ran-day does a great job. His new boat is pretty complicated and maybe the last owner sort of let it 'get away from him'. Randy opened himself up to criticism with that interview. Shulz was doing his best to direct him to what is the most important. 27 thru-hulls? Aiyiyi!
 

Startracker

Member
464
130
Van Isl.
Are you saying that those three things would allow you to skirt a yard’s fucked up “you can’t work on your own boat” rule?
Absolutely. As an approved contractor carrying the correct insurance, the only yards that can say no are the closed exclusive yards that don't allow any outside trades, where it's a single business/yard combo. They can make you jump through a hoop of filling out a form with said information but that's a day or two. The only exception is to activities that are blanket banned for all trades in that area(commonly sandblasting/shooting paint) without express permission, documentation etc.

Whether that's worth the hassle to you is up to you. Business liability/license(you'll want inter-municipal mobile)/wcb etc are relatively trivial. Ship repairers is a bit more pain in the ass. If you do decide to go that route, shoot me a PM and I can suggest a few things that make the latter a lot less fussy to get/contact info for my favourite broker, I've sifted through many over the years, and some are shockingly bad at it. There are some things you should say and some you should be very clear you do not do.
 

Fah Kiew Tu

Curmudgeon, First Rank
10,970
3,903
Tasmania, Australia
Absolutely. As an approved contractor carrying the correct insurance, the only yards that can say no are the closed exclusive yards that don't allow any outside trades, where it's a single business/yard combo. They can make you jump through a hoop of filling out a form with said information but that's a day or two. The only exception is to activities that are blanket banned for all trades in that area(commonly sandblasting/shooting paint) without express permission, documentation etc.

Whether that's worth the hassle to you is up to you. Business liability/license(you'll want inter-municipal mobile)/wcb etc are relatively trivial. Ship repairers is a bit more pain in the ass. If you do decide to go that route, shoot me a PM and I can suggest a few things that make the latter a lot less fussy to get/contact info for my favourite broker, I've sifted through many over the years, and some are shockingly bad at it. There are some things you should say and some you should be very clear you do not do.

Interesting though the situation here is of course a bit different.

However as I have Australian business registration and have a sufficiently vague statement of what my business *does* (sqrt -1 mostly) I could consider insurance if it ever comes up to do an end run around the rules. My GF has liability insurance for her small biz, it wasn't that expensive.

FKT
 

mckenzie.keith

Aspiring Anarchist
1,421
540
Santa Cruz
When I bought my boat in Panama there was a propane tank connected up, and a spare. The gauge at the tank showed it to be near empty. I took it to a local guy who fills tanks and he picked it up and said it was nearly full and the gauge was wrong. I was still using it when I got to Fiji six months later, gauge stlll shows near empty. Who knows how much longer it will go before I need to go to the spare.
Propane in small tanks, as far as I know, is judged only by weight. Our large propane tank at our house has a mechanical gauge with a float that spins a dial (like a mechanical gasoline or diesel gauge).

On small propane tanks in boats and RVs, as far as I know, there is usually a pressure gauge. These can be used for leakdown testing or to detect a totally empty tank, but they don't tell you how much propane is left in the tank (just that there is some). The pressure in a propane tank is mostly a function of the propane temperature. The higher the temp the higher the pressure. When the tank gets so low that there is no more liquid propane in it, only vapor, then the pressure will start to go down and the pressure gauge may read empty.
 

Startracker

Member
464
130
Van Isl.
Interesting though the situation here is of course a bit different.

However as I have Australian business registration and have a sufficiently vague statement of what my business *does* (sqrt -1 mostly) I could consider insurance if it ever comes up to do an end run around the rules. My GF has liability insurance for her small biz, it wasn't that expensive.

FKT
Business liability is easy and cheap. Hell you can do it over the internet here now without even having to talk to a human, unless it involves boats it seems but even then it's not horrible. You need liability+workers insurance+ship repairers+(sometimes) a business license for the area. It's fairly involved to get the ship repairers, definitely a lot more hoops to jump through, and time. Not impossible, but say you were hauling out for a month of work, unlikely to be cost effective at least here. Some ship repairer's policies also cover the general liability, some don't.
 

Fah Kiew Tu

Curmudgeon, First Rank
10,970
3,903
Tasmania, Australia
Business liability is easy and cheap. Hell you can do it over the internet here now without even having to talk to a human, unless it involves boats it seems but even then it's not horrible. You need liability+workers insurance+ship repairers+(sometimes) a business license for the area. It's fairly involved to get the ship repairers, definitely a lot more hoops to jump through, and time. Not impossible, but say you were hauling out for a month of work, unlikely to be cost effective at least here. Some ship repairer's policies also cover the general liability, some don't.

Not here you don't.

Liability, yes. ABN or ACN, yes if you want to or need to issue tax invoices (GST thing) and it's a good way to 'prove' you are a business. But both are country wide.

Self-employed person, no workers insurance. Ship repairers, never heard of that. What is a ship repairer? Welder, shipwright carpenter, marine diesel mechanic, marine electrician, rigger, sailmaker.......???

Anyway I can describe myself as a boat builder and I have a (totally irrelevant) ABN to 'prove' my legitimacy. Gets me the discounts so all good.

Different countries, different rules. At present it's not an issue for me anyway. The best thing is to cultivate a good working relationship with your local yard and don't do anything to fuck it up.

FKT
 

toddster

Super Anarchist
4,550
1,195
The Gorge
Propane in small tanks, as far as I know, is judged only by weight. Our large propane tank at our house has a mechanical gauge with a float that spins a dial (like a mechanical gasoline or diesel gauge).

On small propane tanks in boats and RVs, as far as I know, there is usually a pressure gauge. These can be used for leakdown testing or to detect a totally empty tank, but they don't tell you how much propane is left in the tank (just that there is some). The pressure in a propane tank is mostly a function of the propane temperature. The higher the temp the higher the pressure. When the tank gets so low that there is no more liquid propane in it, only vapor, then the pressure will start to go down and the pressure gauge may read empty.
The 20-pound horizontal tank on my old boat has a liquid level gauge. Not super-accurate. The pressure gauge is on the boat's regulator assembly.
 

charisma94

Fucking Legend
1,437
465
Palma de Mallorca
Not here you don't.

Liability, yes. ABN or ACN, yes if you want to or need to issue tax invoices (GST thing) and it's a good way to 'prove' you are a business. But both are country wide.

Self-employed person, no workers insurance. Ship repairers, never heard of that. What is a ship repairer? Welder, shipwright carpenter, marine diesel mechanic, marine electrician, rigger, sailmaker.......???

Anyway I can describe myself as a boat builder and I have a (totally irrelevant) ABN to 'prove' my legitimacy. Gets me the discounts so all good.

Different countries, different rules. At present it's not an issue for me anyway. The best thing is to cultivate a good working relationship with your local yard and don't do anything to fuck it up.

FKT
Ship Repairers Liability required in NSW at least...


As I understand it "Ship Repairers Liability" is required by anyone working on a vessel who may affect the ships seaworthiness. Shipwrights, mechanics, electricians, riggers, etc., even Detailers.

If the contractor does some work and caused the boat they are working on to (at worst) sink, damage infrastructure or cause environmental damage etc. the Ship Repairers Liability cover is used.

If the Contractor does something to cause damage to another vessel, infrastructure or causes environmental damage etc., the Public Liability cover is used.

Happy to be schooled...
 

mckenzie.keith

Aspiring Anarchist
1,421
540
Santa Cruz
The 20-pound horizontal tank on my old boat has a liquid level gauge. Not super-accurate. The pressure gauge is on the boat's regulator assembly.
I haven't seen such a small tank with a gauge. So I stand corrected. I have only seen pressure gauges on the high-pressure side of the regulator (not permanently attached to the tank).
 

charisma94

Fucking Legend
1,437
465
Palma de Mallorca
I haven't seen such a small tank with a gauge. So I stand corrected. I have only seen pressure gauges on the high-pressure side of the regulator (not permanently attached to the tank).
I might be telling you something you already know...

Easy way to check how much LPG is in a tank... Get some very hot water, not boiling, and pour it over the tank... run your hand down the tank where you poured the water... you'll feel the temperature change on your hand, that's the level of gas.

Gas gauges suck.
 

mckenzie.keith

Aspiring Anarchist
1,421
540
Santa Cruz
I might be telling you something you already know...
Nope. I didn't know that.
Easy way to check how much LPG is in a tank... Get some very hot water, not boiling, and pour it over the tank... run your hand down the tank where you poured the water... you'll feel the temperature change on your hand, that's the level of gas.
If I really need to know I will do this. It is a great idea if using a scale is not feasible (which is often the case on boats).
Gas gauges suck.
Yep.
 

Fah Kiew Tu

Curmudgeon, First Rank
10,970
3,903
Tasmania, Australia
Ship Repairers Liability required in NSW at least...


As I understand it "Ship Repairers Liability" is required by anyone working on a vessel who may affect the ships seaworthiness. Shipwrights, mechanics, electricians, riggers, etc., even Detailers.

If the contractor does some work and caused the boat they are working on to (at worst) sink, damage infrastructure or cause environmental damage etc. the Ship Repairers Liability cover is used.

If the Contractor does something to cause damage to another vessel, infrastructure or causes environmental damage etc., the Public Liability cover is used.

Happy to be schooled...

You are most likely correct - I really don't know and where I live it's never come up.

Pretty much everything other than painting could fall into that bucket if someone wanted to push it...

FKT
 

charisma94

Fucking Legend
1,437
465
Palma de Mallorca
You are most likely correct - I really don't know and where I live it's never come up.

Pretty much everything other than painting could fall into that bucket if someone wanted to push it...

FKT
Yep, pretty much a free for all at OC Marina. I keep my boat there.

None of this really comes up until there's an incident... I suspect a head in the sand attitude? When an incident inevitably happens, they might find themselves (OC Marina) liable as the PCBU for not ensuring adequate insurance for Contractor activities. Their insurer could walk away in that case.

That would be the case in NSW anyway. Not sure about TAS. I'd be quite surprised if they were too different if you drill into it.
 

Startracker

Member
464
130
Van Isl.
You are most likely correct - I really don't know and where I live it's never come up.

Pretty much everything other than painting could fall into that bucket if someone wanted to push it...

FKT
Here they include that one. Actually I had a bit of a discussion with them as to why the hell a detailing company needed it, not really likely to impact vessel seaworthiness. Regardless, they require it to be in the yard. So, arbitrary or not, and often not enforced in DIY type yards, in places where they are restricting any non-professionals from doing it, at least knowing what can get around it might be handy. I've no experience in Australia, but where Jud/I are is close enough that the rules are the same.
 

monkphunk

Member
108
72
The 20-pound horizontal tank on my old boat has a liquid level gauge. Not super-accurate. The pressure gauge is on the boat's regulator assembly.
We have fiberglass tanks, and you can kind of sort of see the liquid level if the sun hits it just right. Agree that the regulator gauge gives you no useful information about how much is left.

But like you mentioned above, I've been pleasantly surprised by how long the tanks last. We have two little 11 pound tanks. Rather than worry about the level, we just fill the empty one within a month or so of of it kicking. And that's living aboard and cooking a lot.
 

Zonker

Super Anarchist
10,905
7,473
Canada
With the fiberglass tanks check at night with a flashlight. Super easy to see then.

Our 17 capacity fiberglass tank would last 6-8 weeks. Oven use was a heavy consumer because you would have a burner on for say 1 hr vs stovetop cooking where it might be 10 or 20 minutes.
 

Kris Cringle

Super Anarchist
3,589
3,339
In my research for propane usage, a friend has the worst set up I think: 1 11lb horizontal tank. He (with a similar boat to mine with a deck box), opted for the one 11tank as it fit nicely in the deck box.

So he knows the BTUs in and roughly estimates the BTU's, burned. But in practice, it would be a job keeping track of burner hours.

He has settled on a number of days of use, then takes the tank off the boat to get it filled.

Do you feel lucky, go another few days, maybe roast that turkey,...No doubt you pull it off much more often and probably would have been better off with 2 5's.

Clearly, more than one tank is the best way to go, even if they are small like 5 pounders I installed.
 


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