Dave Clark
Anarchist
No, I was merely pointing out a further unfair advantage that comes from building ones boats in New England. I have no complaint at all with your observations, which are accurate.
DRC
....got stung by the 'WASZP'?..OD foiler...
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DRC
SeanPurdy
Member
Ah, OK. Understood. And as I mentioned upthread, I hope you make a great success of it!
teknologika
Anarchist
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I wouldn’t stay away from Bladeriders. The trick is getting a good X8 and then being prepared to upgrade the right bits (they need new foils as the mainfoil flap fails, and the rudder is too short) but apart from that they are a good solid club racing package.
if I build another boat, I will consider using one of them as the base to avoid having to build a new hull.
The interwebs have errors? Disaster… I'll accept your version as I've no first hand knowledge.
Regardless, the Wazp and F101 are as different as an IC and a Wetta. It's pointless to compare them on any level other than they're both sailing boats that foil.
The wasp has a big event at Garda joins next week, and they have 50 entrants. They are working hard at the youth market which was the original target. If it gets kids foiling who might later get a moth I will be very happy.
The wasp was never meant to be a moth, it's a really bad moth. It's slow, heavy and not really any easier to sail. The boats which seem to be resold Quickly may well be older buyers who found out that they really were not agile enough for a wasp or a moth. Young people will have a better chance.
The wasp was never meant to be a moth, it's a really bad moth. It's slow, heavy and not really any easier to sail. The boats which seem to be resold Quickly may well be older buyers who found out that they really were not agile enough for a wasp or a moth. Young people will have a better chance.
Team_GBR
Super Anarchist
You don't think that a boat that is nearly impossible to capsize is easier than a Moth? :wacko:
They have actually taken total beginners who haven't sailed before out on the F101 and got them helming. I don't think you could do that with a Moth.
It's just that considering what appeared to be very steady conditions and small waves, it appeared to be crashing a bit, and given higher winds it would seem reasonable that the crashes would end up worse. Having sailed a variety of small tris (HSP, Supernova, Tri Fli, Windrider and others) it's hard to see why the 101 is "impossible to capsize". The basic configuration doesn't look massively less capsizable than say a Supernova, given the higher speeds.
I haven't seen them take out a total beginner so I was only commenting on the information I have seen. It's not hard to believe it; in ideal conditions you can get just about anyone sailing just about anything for a little while with the right instruction.
Surely we have the right to remain unconvinced by advertising and promotional material don't we?
I haven't seen them take out a total beginner so I was only commenting on the information I have seen. It's not hard to believe it; in ideal conditions you can get just about anyone sailing just about anything for a little while with the right instruction.
Surely we have the right to remain unconvinced by advertising and promotional material don't we?
Team_GBR
Super Anarchist
I've sailed the F101. Nobody says it is impossible to capsize but you would need to do something pretty stupid. It is also very easy to get foiling. I suspect the reason why you see the crashes is because they are sailing in fairly light winds and they are 2 up. Although it is very forgiving, nothing changes physics and if you have the weight in the wrong place the boat simply continues climbing and the foils come out and you crash. When a Moth or Waszp crash like that, you swim. If you watch other videos such as the ones from Foiling Week, you will see just how easy it is compared with other foilers.
Try taking a beginner out in any other foiler. It's hard enough go 2 up in a Moth but to have a total novice on the helm, there is no way.
I have no connection to the F101, other than knowing the guys behind it. I wouldn't be buying one, but that is because of the direction I am going with my sailing. I would encourage people to try the boat. I would bet a lot of money on anybody who can get a Laser around a course being able to get foiling straight away and sail it without a capsize unless conditions are wild, in which case they probably won't let you try the boat. It is completely different from any other foiler I have sailed in terms of being user friendly. I think it is a bit of a breakthrough, but it comes at a price.
Try taking a beginner out in any other foiler. It's hard enough go 2 up in a Moth but to have a total novice on the helm, there is no way.
I have no connection to the F101, other than knowing the guys behind it. I wouldn't be buying one, but that is because of the direction I am going with my sailing. I would encourage people to try the boat. I would bet a lot of money on anybody who can get a Laser around a course being able to get foiling straight away and sail it without a capsize unless conditions are wild, in which case they probably won't let you try the boat. It is completely different from any other foiler I have sailed in terms of being user friendly. I think it is a bit of a breakthrough, but it comes at a price.
It's always interesting to hear it from someone who has sailed one and not involved in selling them. I gad watched the Foiling Week vids, but with other foilers I've seen the difference between the way they perform in vids on Garda, and the way they perform in normal conditions so I was cautious.
F18 Sailor
Super Anarchist
Interesting. This has been my experience on the A to date. Very forgiving in reality as you have two hulls to provide stability. Fast it is, fragile it is not and the number of tweaky bits are fairly low IMO. The other thing is the A has stable racing fleets, a solid used marketplace and it isn't going anywhere. It isn't a Wazp though and closer to a Moth in price so it probably won't appeal to many. I really do wish the Wazp continued success as I do think it is a good gateway drug for youth sailors and we could use more of those!!
Team_GBR
Super Anarchist
While you are right that success is about sales, I don't see how you can compare a boat that has been delivering to punters for over a year and one that has been delivering customer boats for a month. There is no surprise that the Waszp has sold so many so fast. At the time people were placing orders, there was no alternative. Now we have the UFO from the USA which i hear is selling like hot cakes.You have the F101 in the UK and you have all sorts of cats. There is room for all of them for now, but I question what the Waszp offers that isn't better offered by others. It doesn't lead in the ease of sailing stakes and it doesn't lead in the price stakes. In the current market, I am not sure what it offers compared with the other choices other than numbers sold to date. With those boats scattered around the world, there isn't yet an advantage due to fleets being established. it seems to me that the whole game is still up for grabs
If you were in the USA at the moment, why would you order a Waszp over a UFO?
Matt D
Super Anarchist
I wonder if we'll see one being used as a stepping stone to the other... (I.e. start in a UFO, or F101, then later move to the Moth)
One of the things that I find most appealing about the UFO is that it's probably a better trainer for learning to foil. A friend of mine picked up a blade rider a few years ago, and though he has a solid skiff background, his fitness (or lack thereof) prevented him from getting long enough sessions in on the Moth to really get a hang of it; though he claims to have gotten it up on foils, no one I know ever saw it. The UFO sounds as though it's more forgiving in the transitions, thus allowing more time spent learning to foil.
Once you master foiling in the UFO, some may find that they're ready for the next step, which could be a Moth. In the meanwhile, with most of the sailing population not having the basics of foiling down, the UFO would seem the logical first step.
One of the things that I find most appealing about the UFO is that it's probably a better trainer for learning to foil. A friend of mine picked up a blade rider a few years ago, and though he has a solid skiff background, his fitness (or lack thereof) prevented him from getting long enough sessions in on the Moth to really get a hang of it; though he claims to have gotten it up on foils, no one I know ever saw it. The UFO sounds as though it's more forgiving in the transitions, thus allowing more time spent learning to foil.
Once you master foiling in the UFO, some may find that they're ready for the next step, which could be a Moth. In the meanwhile, with most of the sailing population not having the basics of foiling down, the UFO would seem the logical first step.
A Class Sailor
Anarchist
I think the Waszp and F101 are aimed at very different markets. Take me as an example. I can foil an A reasonably well, but when I tried a Waszp, I was simply too slow and not fit enough and spent too much time swimming which led to me being too tired to continue after a far too short period. I blame age, although I do realise that there are ways around that. If I was prepared to spend my spare time getting fit enough and sailing lots. That's not what I want. On the A, while I will never be as fast as the top guys, I can at least get around a course in most conditions. I see the F101 as being more like the A than a Moth or Waszp. If the A's weren't strong here, it would be exactly the sort of boat I would want. I don't mind if i cannot foil tack or gybe ( can't the F101 do them?) because not being able to do them hasn't changed my experience of sailing the A.
There is room in the market for a number of different foiling boats. Discussing which is best or which will survive at the expense of others seems futile. It's like arguing which asymmetric carrying boat is best and will be preferred by the market. This is not a battle to see which single foiler will dominate the market. Look at the diversity in the marketplace already. Some boats will nit survive because they simply aren't good enough or don't address a need. At the moment, the waszp has enjoyed an advantage of being first to market of the cheaper one design foilers. Is that enough to sustain it? the market will decide, but if it does survive, I would be very surprised if it was the only one in that part if the market
There is room in the market for a number of different foiling boats. Discussing which is best or which will survive at the expense of others seems futile. It's like arguing which asymmetric carrying boat is best and will be preferred by the market. This is not a battle to see which single foiler will dominate the market. Look at the diversity in the marketplace already. Some boats will nit survive because they simply aren't good enough or don't address a need. At the moment, the waszp has enjoyed an advantage of being first to market of the cheaper one design foilers. Is that enough to sustain it? the market will decide, but if it does survive, I would be very surprised if it was the only one in that part if the market
FishAintBiting
Anarchist
- 549
- 0
Team_GBR
Super Anarchist
The Waszp international Games (whatever that means!) has just finished and I noticed one thing they published with the results each day, the top speed. For the whole week, that was 21.8 knots. While some might see that as rather disappointing, I see that as a huge plus. Although you get used to fast speeds, anything faster than that on a Moth configuration is getting into the scary category. The difference between, say, 22 and 24 knots feels a lot more than the 10% increase it really is and that goes on as you get faster. For a boat like this, having limited speeds seems to me to be a really good thing as people can concentrate on learning to sail/foil really well.
SeanPurdy
Member
I think it's just a placeholder for "Worlds" which they can't use until they get ISAF class recognition.
