Grain Surfboard Project

Student_Driver

Super Anarchist
1,749
146
Darien
BC

Very impressive.  Looks like a significant investment of time and money (wood, materials) to get to just be able to start on the surfboard.  

How many hours did it take to make that rocker table?

 
I was using a converted vacuum/blower to clean off carbon dust, marveling at my safety grill ingenuity as I hand held the beast.  The grill fell off, my hand went into the impeller it was shredded and mashed in a jiffy,  plus the hand was coated with a glass/carbon glaze.  Not my finest hour.  About a month later I was feeding our fussy cat and refluffed his food, came into the kitchen to wash off my finger.  My sweet child [age 27] freaked out at the sight of flesh falling off my hand.  I cooly completed hand washing.  Cat food finger is now my new nickname.
That... is definitely a good reason to change up your account name!

- Stumbling

 

Bull City

Bull City
6,893
2,533
North Carolina
BC

Very impressive.  Looks like a significant investment of time and money (wood, materials) to get to just be able to start on the surfboard.  

How many hours did it take to make that rocker table?
I would guess 4 to 5 hours. Grain supplies the blocks, but you build the ladder-like structure, i.e. the rocker table. You have to wrap each rung in clear packing tape so the top and bottom panels don't stick to it during the glue up, and drill holes for the blocks. Then you have to space them carefully so that they line up with each of the frames. You also have to chase grand children around and misplace tools.

 

guerdon

Anarchist
Bull,  the vacuum mashup was painfully real.  Our cat Basil, is a supreme hunter and jaguar like killing machine.  My wife likes to spoil him with small tins of expensive offal, he gets bored with the old stuff so being the cheapo I am I get an extra days feed buy taking the cans old contents and stirring it with my index finger.  This results in a happy kitty and a finger coated with bits of dead creatures guts.  It actually looks worse than the mashup,  but don't worry, the guts wash off my intact finger and I am still pain free.  Enjoy your woody.  Harbour freight for clamps.  Try cling package tape for release film.  I use fiberglass strapping tape for the tough clamping jobs.  Aloha, Guerdon. 

 

PaulK

Super Anarchist
I would guess 4 to 5 hours. Grain supplies the blocks, but you build the ladder-like structure, i.e. the rocker table. You have to wrap each rung in clear packing tape so the top and bottom panels don't stick to it during the glue up, and drill holes for the blocks. Then you have to space them carefully so that they line up with each of the frames. You also have to chase grand children around and misplace tools.
That's why I keep all my tools in one pile.  That way you know where they are all the time.

 

luminary

Anarchist
715
54
That's why I keep all my tools in one pile.  That way you know where they are all the time.
I like that method too. I have two piles though. Little things and big things. Makes it easier to find the little things.

 

Bull City

Bull City
6,893
2,533
North Carolina
The first step of actual building is gluing up the top and bottom panels. It's the same process for each. Once you arrange the planks, you dry clamp them, and run masking tape along the seams and across. Then you flip it over to do the gluing and clamping. Unfortunately, I was kind of consumed with worrying and fretting over what were about to do, and I didn't get pics of the taped-up side of the panel. When we do the second panel, I'll do better.

Anyhow here are some pics of of our gluing up process:

Here we have just flipped the panel over. You can't see all the tape. I'm amazed that it held the seams together. There are some strong-backs clamped on to keep the panel stable while you flip it.

IMG_4114.JPG

Now we have removed the strong-backs and are ready to glue

IMG_4116.JPG

You get the glue in the seam by letting a seam hang over the edge of the (dining room) table, and then open it like a book. The tape holds it together. Then you squirt the glue (Titebond III) into the seam. Then slide the panel to the next seam. We started with the middle seam and worked to the outside in one direction and the the other. In that way, the seams were opened only once.

IMG_4115.JPG

New we are all clamped up again, have cleaned up the glue, I have stopped hyperventilating, and we have cracked open some beer.

IMG_4117.JPG

IMG_4118.JPG

 

Bull City

Bull City
6,893
2,533
North Carolina
Bar clamp shortage in Old North State!

Today my son and I got back to work. The task was to glue (3M 5200) the keel & frame assembly to the bottom panel and clamp. Here's what it looked like after clamping. I'll some more when the clamps come off.

IMG_4978.jpg IMG_4979.jpg

 

Diarmuid

Super Anarchist
3,425
1,428
Laramie, WY, USA
Missed the earlier posts about taped glue joints. I do a lot of really funky assemblies that way, including coopered door panels, segmented round posts (tapered and non-), rectangular boxes with beveled corners.... With a bit of practice, you learn just how much pre-tension to put into the tape to allow clamping the assemble w/out opening to tape side of the joint. Stout rubber bands can be useful, too.

pillars.jpg

Clamping 110° obtuse half posts is really hard w/out using tape. Need true stock & good tight joints, tho.

 

Leeroy Jenkins

Super Anarchist
1,393
483
Vancouver
Tape is my favorite clamp.  For longer versions of the above miters I lay the pieces flat, tip to tip and run clear packing tape down the length of the joint before adding strips of green painters tape across it.  Flip it over, glue it, fold it, and hold it with more tape across the back. 

 

Bull City

Bull City
6,893
2,533
North Carolina
Tape is amazing. I thought you would have to have a doweling jig and bar clamps to glue up the top and bottom panels.  My son, Tim, has a small custom cabinet business, so he has lots of clamps. His guys are bitching a little. I think he's going to take off the clamps tonight.

BTW, I have never used that 3M 5200 before. It is some sticky stuff!

 

Diarmuid

Super Anarchist
3,425
1,428
Laramie, WY, USA
Tape is amazing. I thought you would have to have a doweling jig and bar clamps to glue up the top and bottom panels.  My son, Tim, has a small custom cabinet business, so he has lots of clamps. His guys are bitching a little. I think he's going to take off the clamps tonight.

BTW, I have never used that 3M 5200 before. It is some sticky stuff!
It is an interesting choice of adhesive for the kit makers to specify.

 

Rasputin22

Rasputin22
13,388
3,029
It is an interesting choice of adhesive for the kit makers to specify.
Good gap filling properties and the elastomeric nature of the 5200 will help dampen vibrations somewhat. We used to cover whole boat hulls with 5200 and then bed C-flex into the mess!  Bull, you don't know what you have been missing...

 
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Diarmuid

Super Anarchist
3,425
1,428
Laramie, WY, USA
Good gap filling properties and the elastomeric nature of the 5200 will help dampen vibrations somewhat. We used to cover whole boat hulls with 5200 and then bed C-flex into the mess!  Bull, you don't know what you have been missing...
Long open time too, I suppose. Forgiving of cross-grain assemblies like this board. And very definitely waterproof. :)  But not an everyday bonding choice in the woodworking universe. (About 1/4 the adhesive strength of thickened epoxy, for one thing.)

 

Rasputin22

Rasputin22
13,388
3,029
Long open time too, I suppose. Forgiving of cross-grain assemblies like this board. And very definitely waterproof. :)  But not an everyday bonding choice in the woodworking universe. (About 1/4 the adhesive strength of thickened epoxy, for one thing.)
We tried every combination of glues and adhesive and nothing matched the tenacity of 5200 on wood after you had whacked the C-Flex/glass layer a few times with a ball peen hammer. The epoxies had higher peel bonds to wood but after our low tech 'impact testing' the hard epoxies had shattered to some degree and the 5200 lost very little peel or shear strength. We used to get the 5200 in our own custom color blend in 5 gallon metal pails. Probably used a couple of barrels worth doing the hull of a 60'er in out by the RIgolets in New Orleans. We ended up going to the Yucatan to do the next boat due to cheap labor. And those Mayans are really short and didn't get as much 5200 in their hair as the 6'8" Belizean fellow we hired for that shit job of spreading the 5200 in New Orleans! No way you are even getting that 3M stuff out of dreadlocks...

Open working time was a big factor as you mention.

 

Diarmuid

Super Anarchist
3,425
1,428
Laramie, WY, USA
We tried every combination of glues and adhesive and nothing matched the tenacity of 5200 on wood after you had whacked the C-Flex/glass layer a few times with a ball peen hammer. The epoxies had higher peel bonds to wood but after our low tech 'impact testing' the hard epoxies had shattered to some degree and the 5200 lost very little peel or shear strength. We used to get the 5200 in our own custom color blend in 5 gallon metal pails. Probably used a couple of barrels worth doing the hull of a 60'er in out by the RIgolets in New Orleans. We ended up going to the Yucatan to do the next boat due to cheap labor. And those Mayans are really short and didn't get as much 5200 in their hair as the 6'8" Belizean fellow we hired for that shit job of spreading the 5200 in New Orleans! No way you are even getting that 3M stuff out of dreadlocks...

Open working time was a big factor as you mention.
Imagine your clothes went straight into the burn barrel at the end of the day, too. Holy crap is that stuff clingy. It's more like tentacle porn than a caulking session.

 

Rasputin22

Rasputin22
13,388
3,029
 Diarmuid,

   We had a guy that insisted on riding his motorcycle out to the boatyard in the boonies instead of just coming to the shop and riding with the gang. He made the mistake of pulling up onto a bit of pavement that had some afternoon shade on it and back his fairly nice bike up under the little roof to park it where it would be nice and cool at quitting time. He didn't notice a big wad of 5200 and shop rag that someone had cleaned his 12" notched trowel that was the major tool for distributing the 5200 bonding coat. You wouldn't believe how much acetone we went through on that job but that wad of acetone thinned 5200 and rag got balled up and the latex gloves came off with it and tossed toward the trash bin. It must have bounced off and had laid there on the slab in waiting for the knobby rear tire on the unwitting Biker's Honda. 

    It was probable partially cured by the time the weight of the bike was rested upon it the next comparatively cool morning but there was still enough active uncured gunk to get a good grab on that tire and 10 hours later the incomparable heat and humidity of the Louisiana Bayou country had done the deed and the tangerine sized ball was forever bonded to the tire. Come quitting time it was always a couple of cases of beer for the crew for enduring the environment coupled need for an imaginary antidote for all the toxic materials we were working with. The biker had a couple and then begged of in a rare display of self preservation (for a guy who worked such a nasty job and rode a motorcycle in New Orleans) he said he would see us in the morning for another team building day of slinging 5200 and strode over to his steed. He started it up and donned his riding gloves and helmet while it warmed up and then he revved it up and dropped it down off the kickstand and did a mild burnout to impress the rest of us. 

    That bike looked like a bucking bronco as the rear wheel hopped at every revolution and it was pretty impressive he was able to backoff the throttle and keep it from dumping him the the dredged oyster shell yard surface. He popped up on the kickstand and shut down and got off and the glob from hell was tucked well up under the seat and when he rotated the tire and it became evident just what the situation was he took off his helmet and gave the rest of us an accusing look! As foreman I didn't think that anyone on the crew would be so low as to deliberately sabotage the guys bike, but after all, he was the head 'motivator' of the gang and he had a real knock for chewing out guys who weren't pulling their weight on the team. The whole gang had horrified looks on their faces as I scanned looking for a smirk that would give away a revenge seeking 5200 applicator but who knew what crazed things that spreading that stuff for 10 hours in the heat might do to a soul?

    The Biker pulled out his pocket knife and started trying to pick and prod the waste wad off to no avail so then he took out a nasty looking sheath knife from a hidden boot sheath (who knew?) and started trying to slice the impediment away. I put the last of the beer in the cooler in the truck bed and the guys took my hint that we should prepare for our own exit in case retribution came our way and the the inevitable happened when the tire itself got slashed. 

    The knives got put away and I had to hand it to the biker guy for keeping his cool and we all loaded his bike into the truck for the ride back to the city and I even gave up my usual 'shotgun' seat in the cab in deference to the guy with the ugly mood. We dropped him and his bike at his house before returning to the shop where I went across the street and had the payroll lady cut a check for the guy to replace his tire. 

    Only thing I ever found to be even half way effective on cured 5200 is one of those spiral wound wire survival saws and even that needs copious amounts of WD-40 as a lubricant. I have a story about that too!

 
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