Grainger R42 - 12.8mts Performance Cruiser Trimaran

[bushsailor]

Yes,

I would say Venom would be quite a bit quicker  than Rushour inshore but offshore Rushour will be over the horizon in any sort of breeze.

Hopefully they will race her so we can find out!!!

Rushour is getting a bigger rig next year to help light air performance.

 

[SeaGul]

R42 against the Shuttle 39 again - some data - and just for fun with my T-35.

                  R42               Shutt39               T-35

Weight:    3300kg         2200kg              1300kg

Beam:        9,58 -            9,7m                    8,2m

Mainsail:     58m2               70m2              58m2

Headsail:     28m2            35 m2                19m2

So really - dont think the R42 has a lot of sailplan for the potential.  The S39 and the T-35 has daggers in the floats - the T-35 has assymetric daggers. S39 also two rudders at the floats - its set up for going on one hull. The Seacart 30 is very proned to be sailed one one hull but has the main dagger in the centre - two rudders on the floats.   

 

[Lowgroove]

R42 against the Shuttle 39 again - some data - and just for fun with my T-35.

                  R42               Shutt39               T-35

Weight:    3300kg         2200kg              1300kg

Beam:        9,58 -            9,7m                    8,2m

Mainsail:     58m2               70m2              58m2

Headsail:     28m2            35 m2                19m2

So really - dont think the R42 has a lot of sailplan for the potential.  The S39 and the T-35 has daggers in the floats - the T-35 has assymetric daggers. S39 also two rudders at the floats - its set up for going on one hull. The Seacart 30 is very proned to be sailed one one hull but has the main dagger in the centre - two rudders on the floats.   

SeaGul, The 42 Main is 70sqm and the Jib is 42sqm.

 

[SeaGul]

SeaGul, The 42 Main is 70sqm and the Jib is 42sqm.

Really - looked at Graingers site about this numbers.... at 70m2 thats better for mainsail... 42 jib - thats not selftacking...

 

[Lowgroove]

Seagul, we ended up with an overlapping Jib, I will check tomorrow but pretty sure the final sail area is 42sqm.

It has a second Heavy Weather Jib non overlapping on an inner stay that from memory would be around 30-32sqm.

 

[SeaGul]

Seagul, we ended up with an overlapping Jib, I will check tomorrow but pretty sure the final sail area is 42sqm.

It has a second Heavy Weather Jib non overlapping on an inner stay that from memory would be around 30-32sqm.

It will be very interesting to follow this boat - the Shutt39 is abit too basic - the R42 has the accomodation that can be acceptable to use as a cruiser and tourer - not around the globe but on extensive coastal trips - and do racing. 

 

[boardhead]

It will be very interesting to follow this boat - the Shutt39 is abit too basic - the R42 has the accomodation that can be acceptable to use as a cruiser and tourer - not around the globe but on extensive coastal trips - and do racing. 

A return to the original F40 concept?The Grainger is a little oversized and more money than is necessary but Thank Goodness something is going on - what's the progress on the Rapido I wonder?

 

[boardhead]

Seagul, we ended up with an overlapping Jib, I will check tomorrow but pretty sure the final sail area is 42sqm.

It has a second Heavy Weather Jib non overlapping on an inner stay that from memory would be around 30-32sqm.

So if Venom goes sailing at 3,200 kg (7,000 pounds) that 42 sq.m (452 sq.ft.) soft, furling headsail will spend a lot of it's life over stressed or partially furled/reefed which is pretty destructive with all the thread paths off.

We run a sail that size on a torque cable furler tacked on the bow. It gets rolled up and lowered in light breeze  and we get the roached, horizontal battened jib up which at a little over 30 sq.m.pulls like a train in concert with the big main. When it starts honking that four batten jib gets reefed and goes on up the range till the storm jib gets flown. I guess two forestays works but it's more weight, windage and complexity with the potential to bend the rig out of column with a loaded up staysail - on another expensive, heavy furler with the sail shape destructive issues as it gets furled/reefed.

 

[gurok]

R42 against the Shuttle 39 again - some data - and just for fun with my T-35.

                  R42               Shutt39               T-35

Weight:    3300kg         2200kg              1300kg

Beam:        9,58 -            9,7m                    8,2m

Mainsail:     58m2               70m2              58m2

Headsail:     28m2            35 m2                19m2

So really - dont think the R42 has a lot of sailplan for the potential.  The S39 and the T-35 has daggers in the floats - the T-35 has assymetric daggers. S39 also two rudders at the floats - its set up for going on one hull. The Seacart 30 is very proned to be sailed one one hull but has the main dagger in the centre - two rudders on the floats.   

I do not believe those numbers for the R42. My TR36 has a main of  56.7m2, a headsail of 32.87m2. Weight 2700kg

 

[Lowgroove]

I do not believe those numbers for the R42. My TR36 has a main of  56.7m2, a headsail of 32.87m2. Weight 2700kg

We ended up with an overlapping Jib om a structural furler,  final sail area is 42sqm.

It has a second Heavy Weather Jib non overlapping on an inner stay that from memory would be around 30-32sqm.

Add to that an Upwind Screecher (Torque Cable luff) out on the mid point of the pole for 0-10 knots n the breeze at 70sqm and all these points about under powered much surely go away.....

 

[Lowgroove]

So if Venom goes sailing at 3,200 kg (7,000 pounds) that 42 sq.m (452 sq.ft.) soft, furling headsail will spend a lot of it's life over stressed or partially furled/reefed which is pretty destructive with all the thread paths off.

We run a sail that size on a torque cable furler tacked on the bow. It gets rolled up and lowered in light breeze  and we get the roached, horizontal battened jib up which at a little over 30 sq.m.pulls like a train in concert with the big main. When it starts honking that four batten jib gets reefed and goes on up the range till the storm jib gets flown. I guess two forestays works but it's more weight, windage and complexity with the potential to bend the rig out of column with a loaded up staysail - on another expensive, heavy furler with the sail shape destructive issues as it gets furled/reefed.

Not really sure how to respond to this, have you seen the french boats with multiple headsails out the front... There will be no parital furling happening, in addition t the two Jibs this boat will have an Upwind Screecher out on the bowsprit furling on a torque cable to be lowered when not in use, used hard on the breeze up to around 10knots true, then used at wider angles from there as the breeze increases.

The Furling Jib lives on a structural furler that is the forestay, the fabric and strength of the sail is engineered to cope with conditions up to a single reefed Main, then you furl and go the heavy weather jib with reef 1 & 2 and eventually a Storm Jib.

From, a sail design point of view the flatter shape and forestay sag(luff cut of the sail) required for best performance in the heavier breeze mean a second headsail is the best option. The tack aft position o the HWJ (staysail) is also keeping the boat quite nicely balanced when the Main is reefed.

Add to that the engineering of the heavier Jib to suit the heavier conditions and I believe you have the best solution, for a 30ft Tri a reef in the Jib works quite well, at 42ft and with the brief being short handed offshore Racing and Cruising it is not really a user friendly or safe option to reef, plus a performance compromise. 

Yes there is expense, but with a build like this this was the owners preferred configuration for his dream boat, enjoying his sailing and not crawling around on the foredeck is a pretty big priority.

Congratulations to Bob and good on him for going for it to get this sweet boat on the water!

At the end of the day projects like this are few are far between and should be celebrated, the knocking that goes on simply blows my mind.

 

[boardhead]

Certainly not knocking, I very much applaud the effort on everyone's part in bringing this stunning boat to fruition.

Very, very true - projects like this are few and far between and did not intend to be critical, more sharing my, mostly, self and wife handling a similar (90% sized) trimaran experience.

In your questioning how to answer my post I would say you did so very well and Thanks for sharing the rationale. 

Venom is quite a bit bigger and could well represent the point at which the move to multiple furlers makes sense.

I hope she turns out to be a screamer and moves the data base foreword.

 

[Floating Duck]

Not to be rude but... did we talk about the amount of moneys $$$ of this project? Just curious how many paper bills this would take if, say, I wanted one...

 

[PIL66 - XL2]

Yes,

I would say Venom would be quite a bit quicker  than Rushour inshore but offshore Rushour will be over the horizon in any sort of breeze.

Hopefully they will race her so we can find out!!!

Rushour is getting a bigger rig next year to help light air performance.

If you are selling your mast... I may be in the market

 

[SeaGul]

The sail configuration - we have selftacking jib - and that is very handy at times. I see also the Shutt39 has that - shorthanded or touring its a very good solution. I see the well designes and fast Danish  Black Marlin has that too - but then it has two roller-sail on the sprit - and it seems that the smallest is a selftacking jib too - bigger than the one at the forestay - anyone seen this before? 

 

[nmanno]

I do not believe those numbers for the R42. My TR36 has a main of  56.7m2, a headsail of 32.87m2. Weight 2700kg

R42 against the Shuttle 39 again - some data - and just for fun with my T-35.

                  R42               Shutt39               T-35

Weight:    3300kg         2200kg              1300kg

Beam:        9,58 -            9,7m                    8,2m

Mainsail:     58m2               70m2              58m2

Headsail:     28m2            35 m2                19m2

So really - dont think the R42 has a lot of sailplan for the potential.  The S39 and the T-35 has daggers in the floats - the T-35 has assymetric daggers. S39 also two rudders at the floats - its set up for going on one hull. The Seacart 30 is very proned to be sailed one one hull but has the main dagger in the centre - two rudders on the floats.   

Sorry guys, for the weight listed above, what's included? Reason I am asking is I own Carbon 3 and I can't believe the S39 would only be 2,200kg unless it's just the platform? My platform with foils weight 1,660kg without rig, sails, rigging... I can't believe the build on C3 was botched up so I wonder where my boat got fat. We broke the mast earlier this year and all these weight issues are front and centre right now to design the new mast, hence I appreciate any views.

 

[gurok]

Sorry guys, for the weight listed above, what's included? Reason I am asking is I own Carbon 3 and I can't believe the S39 would only be 2,200kg unless it's just the platform? My platform with foils weight 1,660kg without rig, sails, rigging... I can't believe the build on C3 was botched up so I wonder where my boat got fat. We broke the mast earlier this year and all these weight issues are front and centre right now to design the new mast, hence I appreciate any views.

She's not 2.2 in racing trim.  Her rating certificate has her at 2.7 (https://sites.google.com/site/mocrarating2/home/morpheus) . As was previously mentioned she's pretty sparse inside. The owner came to visit Freshly Squeezed and asked that I not let his wife see the inside of her 

 

[nmanno]

She's not 2.2 in racing trim.  Her rating certificate has her at 2.7 (https://sites.google.com/site/mocrarating2/home/morpheus) . As was previously mentioned she's pretty sparse inside. The owner came to visit Freshly Squeezed and asked that I not let his wife see the inside of her 

ok so the plaform is 2.2t and when you add sails, rig, rigging etc... you come to 2.7t. That makes more sense. Mine comes at c.2.2t ready to race and there is literally nothing inside, a black hole...so send your wife over, she'll love your plushy boat!

 

[Lars Schrøder d 13]

The Black Marlin pictured above is quoted at 1460 kg, 10 m length, 7,8 m beam (havent seen measurement certificat though), so trimarans can be builld light 

http://visionboats.com/en/?Black_marlin

 

[SeaGul]

If rating weight is 2700kg for Shutt39 - isnt that including the crew? The T-35 has basic 1300kg -  weight inc. decleared rev eq. at 1445kg and crew at 382 - total Rated weight 1827kg.