Gyrocopter

mundt

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On a hike the other day I saw a gyrocopter flying past and here's what popped into my head, "That thing reminds me of a proa, lots of effort and danger to come up with something not quite as good as an airplane or helicopter.". The analogy being that the proa, though beautiful, in spite of all the effort by ingenious individuals is not quite as good as a cat or tri...thoughts?

 

unShirley

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On a hike the other day I saw a gyrocopter flying past and here's what popped into my head, "That thing reminds me of a proa, lots of effort and danger to come up with something not quite as good as an airplane or helicopter.". The analogy being that the proa, though beautiful, in spite of all the effort by ingenious individuals is not quite as good as a cat or tri...thoughts?
Mundt, is it too rough in the channel to do some real trolling?

 

ProaSailor

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On a hike the other day I saw a gyrocopter flying past and here's what popped into my head, "That thing reminds me of a proa, lots of effort and danger to come up with something not quite as good as an airplane or helicopter.". The analogy being that the proa, though beautiful, in spite of all the effort by ingenious individuals is not quite as good as a cat or tri...thoughts?
Bullshit.  The comparison is a very far stretch to disparage proas.

Gyrocopters actually have some advantages over planes, such as short takeoffs and safe unpowered landings.  And they are cheaper and less complex than helicopters.

 

PIL66 - XL2

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On a hike the other day I saw a gyrocopter flying past and here's what popped into my head, "That thing reminds me of a proa, lots of effort and danger to come up with something not quite as good as an airplane or helicopter.". The analogy being that the proa, though beautiful, in spite of all the effort by ingenious individuals is not quite as good as a cat or tri...thoughts?
Hahaha..... nothing like starting a new shit fight with the fringe dwelling Proa crowd....... 
What @somasaid ..... ^

Rob will be along shortly

I'm sure monohullers feel much the same about multies
40 years ago, yes........But now... No
 

 
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ProaSailor

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soma said:
Yeah, I always think “a solution without a problem” when I see one. 
The problem it solves is money.  More waterline for less cost, less weight and less sail area.

If you are rich, you can afford a big one, on the order of ~85 feet for the cost of a 60 foot cat.

There is a good reason for them but most people don't know shit from Shinola about proas, especially the concept of keeping the outrigger and less weight to windward.

 

unShirley

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The problem it solves is money.  More waterline for less cost, less weight and less sail area.

If you are rich, you can afford a big one, on the order of ~85 feet for the cost of a 60 foot cat.

There is a good reason for them but most people don't know shit from Shinola about proas, especially the concept of keeping the outrigger and less weight to windward.
When I read Soma's reply, I thought he was referring to gyrocopters.

 

mundt

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She solves the problem of allowing guys to watch soft porn whilst pretending to be aviation buffs. That thing flies pretty good too, just like a proa often sails pretty good.

 
Don't knock Gyrocoptors, even James Bond has been known to use one. Seriously though, a very underated light aircraft that has been around for a very long time. Even been used in wars as observation craft due to their quietness but with good speed and very short takeoff and landing.

 

SeaGul

Super Anarchist
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Oslo Norway
The problem it solves is money.  More waterline for less cost, less weight and less sail area.

If you are rich, you can afford a big one, on the order of ~85 feet for the cost of a 60 foot cat.

There is a good reason for them but most people don't know shit from Shinola about proas, especially the concept of keeping the outrigger and less weight to windward.
I cant se a proa can be cheaper than a cat for the same money - according to space and speed - building wise... and for the total when you take the 2. hand value into account - its no contest. Gyrocopters I like.... cheaper and can fly... 

 
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I cant se a proa can be cheaper than a cat for the same money - according to space and speed - building wise... and for the total when you take the 2. hand value into account - its no contest. Gyrocopters I like.... cheaper and can fly... 
consider the strength of attachments and section modulus required for the cross beams of a cat vs. a proa.  That alone is an enormous cost for a large custom boat.  The cost and weight and complexity of a proa is in the main hull, and the load paths are reasonably simple.  Compare to a cat, with a dolphin striker or a seagull striker, and a mast step in a beam, and mainsheet attached to another beam.  Sufficient stiffness to maintain headstay tension.  All these are expenses and added material that can be put into added length of a Proa if it is to be the same price as a Cat.

Resale market?  Yeah, a cat wins that one for sure.

 
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ProaSailor

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I cant se a proa can be cheaper than a cat for the same money - according to space and speed - building wise...
Not sure what "cheaper [...] for the same money" means?  I said longer for the same money("More waterline for less cost")

As to accommodation space for a given length, the catamaran wins for sure.  Even a longer proa for the same money will not offer as much accommodation space as a shorter catamaran (none that I've drawn so far anyway).  Two bows on a single large hull can't match the interior volume provided by two hulls with relatively wide transoms.  So there are many good reasons to choose a cat over a proa.

Performance for a given budget, including sail area and mast height, are reasons to consider a Pacific proa.

 
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KC375

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consider the strength of attachments and section modulus required for the cross beams of a cat vs. a proa.  That alone is an enormous cost for a large custom boat.  The cost and weight and complexity of a proa is in the main hull, and the load paths are reasonably simple.  Compare to a cat, with a dolphin striker or a seagull striker, and a mast step in a beam, and mainsheet attached to another beam.  Sufficient stiffness to maintain headstay tension.  All these are expenses and added material that can be put into added length of a Proa if it is to be the same price as a Cat.

Resale market?  Yeah, a cat wins that one for sure.
If your planned use can be met with a production boat and you ever want to resell your boat...well that makes it hard to justify a proa.

If you ARE going custom (for specific needs or joy of the design build process) and it is your forever boat...I can see a proa might make sense.

(myself I'm intrigued by proas not for rational economic reason but because they seem to me an elegant solution AND THEY ARE DIFFERENT, I'd pay a premium for a just for me boat that had my fingerprints on the design and build and I'd pay a premium to sail something interesting...but am I willing to pay enough of a premium?)

The "problem" is proas don't fit the needs of the mass charter market (or other large scale market) so they don't benefit from economies of scale of production boats.

Sort of a cath 22, may not be a lot of proas 'cause there are not a lot of proas...

 
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