Healthcare, Stimulus and Socialism

roundthebuoys

Super Anarchist
9,909
911
Limelight
The Federal-Aid Highway Act of 1956, popularly known as the National Interstate and Defense Highways Act (Public Law 84-627), was enacted on June 29, 1956, when Dwight D. Eisenhower signed the bill into law. Appropriating $25 billion for the construction of 41,000 miles (66,000 km) of Interstate Highways over a 20-year period, it was the largest public works project in American history to that point.[citation needed]
The money was handled in a highway trust fund that paid for 90 percent of highway construction costs with the states required to pay the remaining 10 percent. It was expected that the money would be generated through new taxes on fuel, automobiles, trucks and tires.
So put yourself in the wayback machine and compare or contrast The Federal-Aid Act of 1956 to proposals offered today.

What I see in the above excerpt, were I to define it by Fox News, Rush Limbaugh and the Catamoron's standards, is a massive Socialist program superceding State's Rights which would raise taxes, expand Government and is not the role of the Federal Government as defined by the Constitution.

Because of the death of his sister-in-law, the president was unable to attend, and Vice President Richard M. Nixon delivered the message from detailed notes the president had prepared. Nixon told the governors that the increased funding authorized earlier that year was "a good start" but "a $50 billion highway program in 10 years is a goal toward which we can - and we should - look." Such a program, over and above the regular federal-aid program, was needed because "... our highway network is inadequate locally, and obsolete as a national system." The vice president read the president's recollection of his 1919 convoy, then cited five "penalties" of the nation's obsolete highway network: the annual death and injury toll, the waste of billions of dollars in detours and traffic jams, the clogging of the nation's courts with highway-related suits, the inefficiency in the transportation of goods, and "the appalling inadequacies to meet the demands of catastrophe or defense, should an atomic war come."
Hmmm, waste and inefficiencies, lawsuits? Good reasons to add to that $25B with another $50B (in 1950's cash) to this massive Fedearl program.

Furthermore, the speech was delivered at a time when the governors were again debating how to convince the federal government to stop collecting gas taxes so the states could pick up the revenue. Some governors even argued that the federal government should get out of the highway business altogether.
I wonder where our State's Rights, small Federal Government folks today would have stood on this. NO DOUBT, they would be against this program.

The President's Advisory Committee on a National Highway Program, commonly called the "Clay Committee," included Steve Bechtel of Bechtel Corporation, Sloan Colt of Bankers' Trust Company, Bill Roberts of Allis-Chalmers Manufacturing Company, and Dave Beck of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters.
Uh oh.. The Teamsters? Not looking good for the President getting any Right Wing support on this massive expansion of the Fedearl Government. Plus, Bechtel and the Banker's Trust? I can't imagine who got greased in them getting that gig.

Based on BPR data, the Clay Committee's report estimated that highway needs totaled $101 billion.
OH shit.. $101B?? What happened to $25B?

By a vote of 221 to 193, the House defeated the Clay Committee's plan on July 27, 1955. That was not a surprise. What was a surprise was that Fallon's bill, as modified in committee, was defeated also. It lost by an even more lopsided vote of 292 to 123. Most observers blamed the defeat of the Fallon bill on an intense lobbying campaign by trucking, petroleum, and tire interests. Speaker of the House Sam Rayburn told reporters, "The people who were going to have to pay for these roads put on a propaganda campaign that killed the bill."
The more things change.

On March 19, the House Ways and Means Committee reported out a bill, developed by Rep. Hale Boggs of Louisiana, that contained the financing mechanism. The Highway Revenue Act of 1956 proposed to increase the gas tax from two to three cents per gallon and to impose a series of other highway user tax changes. Acting on a suggestion by Secretary of Treasury George Humphrey, Rep. Boggs included a provision that credited a revenue from highway user taxes to a Highway Trust Fund to be used for the highway program. The Committee on Public Works combined the Fallon and Boggs bills as Title I and Title II, respectively, of a single bill that was introduced on April 21. On April 27, the Federal Highway Act of 1956 passed the House by a vote of 388 to 19.
Interesting comparison of the Healthcare Bill and the Federal Highways Act.

 

d'ranger

Super Anarchist
28,775
4,049
OH shit.. $101B?? What happened to $25B?
Good detective work RTB but I thought you were an Obama horn blower.
So in addition to a Putz 1st Class you are also another homoerotic obsessed wingnut. Are you sure you aren't really Rick Perry?

Texas GOP Gov. Rick Perry accused President Barack Obama on Wednesday of “punishing” Texas and being “hell-bent” on turning the United States into a socialist country.
Pander pander pander

Perry also accused the Obama administration of intentionally dumping illegal immigrants from other western states in Texas, recalling a conversation he had with local officials notifying him that illegal aliens that were caught in Nogales, Arizona were being dropped off by federal authorities in Presidio, Texas.
Looks like Perry is gettin all ready to succeed, er secede er somethin.

 

flaps15

Super Anarchist
5,649
0
dna level c
Here's a comparison for you.

Federal Highways Act = Expansion of Personal Freedoms and easing of trade/business in and between states for All Americans with motor vehicles and those that aspired to acquire a vehicle and to a successful life.

Democrat Heath Care Bill = Denial of personal freedoms and personal choices due to government intervention in productive citizen's lives and the quashing of the free enterprise system, in addition to competition in business. Stealing from the so called "affluent" to give to anyone the government deems worthy. No dreams, no expansion of business/jobs for hard working citizens, (except bureaucracy) just get in line or get out of the way.

Everything else is bullshit.

 

Not My Real Name

Not Actually Me
42,901
2,742
Here's a comparison for you.
Federal Highways Act = Expansion of Personal Freedoms and easing of trade/business in and between states for All Americans with motor vehicles and those that aspired to acquire a vehicle and to a successful life.

Democrat Heath Care Bill = Denial of personal freedoms and personal choices due to government intervention in productive citizen's lives and the quashing of the free enterprise system, in addition to competition in business. Stealing from the so called "affluent" to give to anyone the government deems worthy. No dreams, no expansion of business/jobs for hard working citizens, (except bureaucracy) just get in line or get out of the way.

Everything else is bullshit.
* golf claps * for the epic spin job on that. Doesn't make any more sense how not dying from a preventable illness denies personal freedoms, but you get points for trying.

 

d'ranger

Super Anarchist
28,775
4,049
So for even more hysterical, er historical perspective:

FDR (big D) builds dams, bridges, parks, roads, public buildings = socialism = bad

Ike (big R) builds highway system = personal freedom = good.

It really helps to simplify these things.

 

TMSAIL

Super Anarchist
Here's a comparison for you.
Federal Highways Act = Expansion of Personal Freedoms and easing of trade/business in and between states for All Americans with motor vehicles and those that aspired to acquire a vehicle and to a successful life.

Democrat Heath Care Bill = Denial of personal freedoms and personal choices due to government intervention in productive citizen's lives and the quashing of the free enterprise system, in addition to competition in business. Stealing from the so called "affluent" to give to anyone the government deems worthy. No dreams, no expansion of business/jobs for hard working citizens, (except bureaucracy) just get in line or get out of the way.

Everything else is bullshit.
You missed the part that you are required to purchase health care, that is approved by Big Brother. If you don't you will be fined, do not pay the fine and they toss you in prison for up to 5 years, at a cost of $50,000 per year. lots of Logic there.

 

TMSAIL

Super Anarchist
So for even more hysterical, er historical perspective:
FDR (big D) builds dams, bridges, parks, roads, public buildings = socialism = bad

Ike (big R) builds highway system = personal freedom = good.

It really helps to simplify these things.
Actually there is a reason why the stimulus calls for "social" infrastructure. Most focus on infrastructure and miss the key word. Which is why lots of tax dollars are flowing into social programs rather than bridges, roads and public buildings.

 

flaps15

Super Anarchist
5,649
0
dna level c
Here's a comparison for you.
Federal Highways Act = Expansion of Personal Freedoms and easing of trade/business in and between states for All Americans with motor vehicles and those that aspired to acquire a vehicle and to a successful life.

Democrat Heath Care Bill = Denial of personal freedoms and personal choices due to government intervention in productive citizen's lives and the quashing of the free enterprise system, in addition to competition in business. Stealing from the so called "affluent" to give to anyone the government deems worthy. No dreams, no expansion of business/jobs for hard working citizens, (except bureaucracy) just get in line or get out of the way.

Everything else is bullshit.
* golf claps * for the epic spin job on that. Doesn't make any more sense how not dying from a preventable illness denies personal freedoms, but you get points for trying.

Again. Bullshit. No spin. You just don't get it. Show me where your "hypothetical" preventable illness person is gonna get cured just because of Democare. You can't. What if he doesn't go to the physician till it is too late anyway? Your not looking at the "human factor" of this debacle called healthcare reform. H.R. 3962 is 2000 pages of how to herd cats and over-charge the successful. Then whats coming from the Senate? Who knows? Everyone has access to healthcare in this country, always have, make a choice to see a physician if you need to, be a man and find a way to pay for it. In the mean time, attempting to compare the Federal Highways Act to Democare is just stoopid. But you knew that.

 

nannygovtsucks

Super Anarchist
15,365
4
Federal authority to construct the interstate highway system rested on the Commerce Clause, which gave Congress the authority to regulate interstate commerce, and Congress’ authority to dole out federal tax revenue. Someone who does not buy health insurance is not by that ommission engaged in interstate commerce and therefore there is no act of interstate commerce for Congress to regulate.

From constitutional scholar David Rivkin:

None of Congress’ enumerated powers support an individual purchase mandate. We have made this case in considerable detail in our recent articles in the Washington Post and the Wall Street Journal. Indeed, the Congressional Research Service, an entity that is usually deferential to Congress’ prerogatives and prone to take an expansive view of congressional powers, when asked by the Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus about the constitutionality of individual purchase mandates could only say that this is a “novel question.” This mandate can only be based upon a view that Congress can exercise general police powers, a view profoundly at odds with the Framers’ vision of the federal government as one of limited and enumerated powers. If the federal government can mandate an individual insurance purchase mandate, it can also mandate an unlimited array of other mandates and prescriptions, including the mandate to buy health club memberships or even to purchase a given quantity of fruits and vegetables. This state of affairs would completely warp our constitutional fabric, vitiate any autonomous role for the states and eviscerate individual liberty. It is profoundly un-American.
 

Rumbulls

Super Anarchist
7,234
5
Boyne City
Here's a comparison for you.
Federal Highways Act = Expansion of Personal Freedoms and easing of trade/business in and between states for All Americans with motor vehicles and those that aspired to acquire a vehicle and to a successful life.

Democrat Heath Care Bill = Denial of personal freedoms and personal choices due to government intervention in productive citizen's lives and the quashing of the free enterprise system, in addition to competition in business. Stealing from the so called "affluent" to give to anyone the government deems worthy. No dreams, no expansion of business/jobs for hard working citizens, (except bureaucracy) just get in line or get out of the way.

Everything else is bullshit.
* golf claps * for the epic spin job on that. Doesn't make any more sense how not dying from a preventable illness denies personal freedoms, but you get points for trying.

Again. Bullshit. No spin. You just don't get it. Show me where your "hypothetical" preventable illness person is gonna get cured just because of Democare. You can't. What if he doesn't go to the physician till it is too late anyway? Your not looking at the "human factor" of this debacle called healthcare reform. H.R. 3962 is 2000 pages of how to herd cats and over-charge the successful. Then whats coming from the Senate? Who knows? Everyone has access to healthcare in this country, always have, make a choice to see a physician if you need to, be a man and find a way to pay for it. In the mean time, attempting to compare the Federal Highways Act to Democare is just stoopid. But you knew that.




Don't forget the instant surge of adverse selection.

 

herbie53

Member
451
0
Chesapeake
Remember when:Medicare was a "communist scheme"?

Equal Rights Amendment would "enslave white people"?

You lot are on the wrong side of this issue as well.
Medicare wasn't a communist scheme?

I think it did a fine job of screwing up the private insurance industry by creating a motivation for insurance companies to minimize what they spend on care before one turns 65. Gives you commie schemers some pretty good ammunition.

Fucking with free enterprise always has "unintended" consequences. I got an idea.. let's subsidize corn production and create a really inexpensive food supply while helping farmers!!!! oh shit Americans are all fat bastards having heart attacks, fat cows are creating to much CO2, and the volume of production needed to make money has driven family farms out of business. brilliant.

How about we put a gas mileage requirement on cars... whoops somebody "forgot" to have it include trucks... bring on the SUV's... after all, they only cost a bit more to build and the aforementioned lard asses will need them to haul around all their diabetic children... someone with some stones would just do a Federal fuel tax and let the automakers and the market figure out how to be efficient.... is it a better idea to subsidize an automaker / given technology -- likely more unintended consequences to come.

rant over... I don't know what got into me.

Carry on.

 

nannygovtsucks

Super Anarchist
15,365
4
Remember when:Medicare was a "communist scheme"?

Equal Rights Amendment would "enslave white people"?

You lot are on the wrong side of this issue as well.
Medicare wasn't a communist scheme?

I think it did a fine job of screwing up the private insurance industry by creating a motivation for insurance companies to minimize what they spend on care before one turns 65. Gives you commie schemers some pretty good ammunition.

Fucking with free enterprise always has "unintended" consequences. I got an idea.. let's subsidize corn production and create a really inexpensive food supply while helping farmers!!!! oh shit Americans are all fat bastards having heart attacks, fat cows are creating to much CO2, and the volume of production needed to make money has driven family farms out of business. brilliant.

How about we put a gas mileage requirement on cars... whoops somebody "forgot" to have it include trucks... bring on the SUV's... after all, they only cost a bit more to build and the aforementioned lard asses will need them to haul around all their diabetic children... someone with some stones would just do a Federal fuel tax and let the automakers and the market figure out how to be efficient.... is it a better idea to subsidize an automaker / given technology -- likely more unintended consequences to come.

rant over... I don't know what got into me.

Carry on.
Good luck trying to explain the concept of unintended consequences to the nitwit Obamunistas around here. It's way over their pin heads. But there is no better concept to explain the the history of liberalism. The problem is that every failure of lefty-statist intervention is used as an excuse to do more, to spend more, to tax more. But the real omnipresent consequence is the loss of political and economic liberty which follows like night follows day when we put these yahoos in charge.

 

Sol Rosenberg

Girthy Member
92,246
10,170
Earth
Remember when:Medicare was a "communist scheme"?

Equal Rights Amendment would "enslave white people"?

You lot are on the wrong side of this issue as well.
Medicare wasn't a communist scheme?

I think it did a fine job of screwing up the private insurance industry by creating a motivation for insurance companies to minimize what they spend on care before one turns 65. Gives you commie schemers some pretty good ammunition.

Fucking with free enterprise always has "unintended" consequences. I got an idea.. let's subsidize corn production and create a really inexpensive food supply while helping farmers!!!! oh shit Americans are all fat bastards having heart attacks, fat cows are creating to much CO2, and the volume of production needed to make money has driven family farms out of business. brilliant.

How about we put a gas mileage requirement on cars... whoops somebody "forgot" to have it include trucks... bring on the SUV's... after all, they only cost a bit more to build and the aforementioned lard asses will need them to haul around all their diabetic children... someone with some stones would just do a Federal fuel tax and let the automakers and the market figure out how to be efficient.... is it a better idea to subsidize an automaker / given technology -- likely more unintended consequences to come.

rant over... I don't know what got into me.

Carry on.
Good luck trying to explain the concept of unintended consequences to the nitwit Obamunistas around here. It's way over their pin heads. But there is no better concept to explain the the history of liberalism. The problem is that every failure of lefty-statist intervention is used as an excuse to do more, to spend more, to tax more. But the real omnipresent consequence is the loss of political and economic liberty which follows like night follows day when we put these yahoos in charge.
But...but...he's talking about a fuel tax, and you are chastising lefties for wanting to tax more. Who are the liberals again?

 

nannygovtsucks

Super Anarchist
15,365
4
Remember when:Medicare was a "communist scheme"?

Equal Rights Amendment would "enslave white people"?

You lot are on the wrong side of this issue as well.
Medicare wasn't a communist scheme?

I think it did a fine job of screwing up the private insurance industry by creating a motivation for insurance companies to minimize what they spend on care before one turns 65. Gives you commie schemers some pretty good ammunition.

Fucking with free enterprise always has "unintended" consequences. I got an idea.. let's subsidize corn production and create a really inexpensive food supply while helping farmers!!!! oh shit Americans are all fat bastards having heart attacks, fat cows are creating to much CO2, and the volume of production needed to make money has driven family farms out of business. brilliant.

How about we put a gas mileage requirement on cars... whoops somebody "forgot" to have it include trucks... bring on the SUV's... after all, they only cost a bit more to build and the aforementioned lard asses will need them to haul around all their diabetic children... someone with some stones would just do a Federal fuel tax and let the automakers and the market figure out how to be efficient.... is it a better idea to subsidize an automaker / given technology -- likely more unintended consequences to come.

rant over... I don't know what got into me.

Carry on.
Good luck trying to explain the concept of unintended consequences to the nitwit Obamunistas around here. It's way over their pin heads. But there is no better concept to explain the the history of liberalism. The problem is that every failure of lefty-statist intervention is used as an excuse to do more, to spend more, to tax more. But the real omnipresent consequence is the loss of political and economic liberty which follows like night follows day when we put these yahoos in charge.
But...but...he's talking about a fuel tax, and you are chastising lefties for wanting to tax more. Who are the liberals again?

See what I mean?

 

freedom

Super Anarchist
14,268
0
government03.jpg


I,m not sure which is worse --this feable attempt to portray the 2000 +page Pelosi Obama care abortion bill as an interstate highway program or the Obamanistas claim that because the constitution preamble notes "promoting the general welfare " it is instructions to nationalize industries banks morgtgage giants financial institutions and the medical field .

The nation is 13 trillion in debt and getting worse each day --all these fuckwads can do is lie to themselves and hope no one catches on .

 
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