Help me find my next boat: family coastal cruiser for ~$100k

socalrider

Super Anarchist
1,304
659
San Diego CA
Hi all!  

After almost 5 years with the First 405, wife and I decided it was time for a change and I put her up casually for private sale & just took a deposit on her at a fair price.  She's in survey on Wednesday, so a close is likely in the next couple weeks.  I'm poking around more seriously now & thought I'd start collecting advice from the stable geniuses on this forum.  Enjoy my dissertation!  

We listed the F405 because my three girls are getting bigger (6, 9, 11 now) and it's become clear that while *I* put a high priority on sailing performance, everyone else just wants a comfortable way to be together on the water.  Everyone hates heeling.  These criteria are leading me to look seriously at boats I would have scoffed at in earlier years.

Use case: easy daysailing with 6-10, overnighting with 5-9, summer Pacific coastal cruising for 2-10 weeks with 5.  Ready by late summer.  

Budget: trying to stay around $100k all-in including any refit work.  Have more, but don't want to spend it.  I'm handy, but time-constrained.  

Goals are:

- Interior that can sleep 5 in cabins (3 cabin or master plus one three-berth cabin).  We are used to smaller spaces than most (live in 1400sqft house).  6'2" headroom.

- Ample shaded cockpit free of lines, traveler, etc.  Ideally I can tack the boat without moving from the helm with 6-8 others aboard

- Motion comfort at anchor and in our normal Pacific swell.  This is tough to describe I know, but I know it when I feel it.  

- Simple systems: the F405 had a composting head, almost no electronics, and two through-hulls.  

Candidates (as of today): 

Kaufman 47: this whole thing started when I saw one for sale locally & started a thread about it here.  She's beautiful and fast, but needs an interior refit below and a significantly modified deck layout to meet my criterial.  Would need to come down a lot in price.  She was listed for $89k, taken off market by an offer to buy (sight unseen) at ~$75k, but the buyer has backed out before survey.  

Cal 2-46: I never would have looked at a boat like this before, but the layout is just amazing & wife loves it.  Looks like a fantastic Catalina boat, and ready for going further afield if we got more ambitious.  This particular example has the galley down, which is vastly better & creates a massive open saloon.  Interior is *great*.  Lots and lots of tanks, hoses and manifolds.  Old.  Great big 4.236 spinning a massive 26" 4-blade Martec, but the engine side not pictured has salt crystals on the heat exchanger (pinhole leaks I assume), and a lot of old clamps and hoses.  Running rigging needs to be completely redone (wire halyards & winches!).  More exterior wood than I'd like (I'd like none).  https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1977/cal-2-46-3619031/

Lagoon 35ccc: Baby cat, oddly similar in useable space to the 2-46.  In great shape.  Tankage is low (might need watermaker) but I liked it a lot more than I thought I would, and 1/3 the displacement of the 2-46 means everything is simpler.  Much much less load capacity than the 2-46 but I think we could make it work - comments?  https://sandiego.craigslist.org/nsd/boa/d/san-diego-1996-lagoon-35-ccc/7069655500.html

20 year-old French 45-50' 3-cabin monohulls: The obvious choice.  Finding one in good shape on the West Coast is more challenging than I'd thought.  There's a nice Dufour 45 Classic in LA but a bit over my range.  There are also a few ex-charter boats like this one with lots and lots of heads.  Lots of wing keels and in-mast furling mains which I don't like, but they'd still be faster than the 2-46 or 35ccc I suspect!  

If I could imagine the perfect boat it'd probably be an older lightweight but well-built 40' cat (Woods, Simpson, or even some of the 90's production boats), but these are very hard to find here.  I see a lot of good stuff in the Caribbean but don't know if it's practical to contemplate bringing one over; I just don't have the time.  

 

Diarmuid

Super Anarchist
3,370
1,373
Laramie, WY, USA
Center cockpits like the C 2-46 seem the thing for SoCal coastal! A roundtable at Two Harbors had several owners with families who just loved the sense of private space, visibility for maneuvers, and clear cockpit. (Of course, nearly all of them confessed they motored over from the mainland because it was too windy/not windy enuf/family doesn't like heeling.) Burly engine, lots of diesel tankage, and a willingness to be a trawler-on-demand opens up your options. :)

 

socalrider

Super Anarchist
1,304
659
San Diego CA
Center cockpits like the C 2-46 seem the thing for SoCal coastal! A roundtable at Two Harbors had several owners with families who just loved the sense of private space, visibility for maneuvers, and clear cockpit. (Of course, nearly all of them confessed they motored over from the mainland because it was too windy/not windy enuf/family doesn't like heeling.) Burly engine, lots of diesel tankage, and a willingness to be a trawler-on-demand opens up your options. :)
Yeah, that's the appeal - don't tell anyone but I spent a fair bit of time looking at powerboats before coming back to my senses.  The 2-46 seems to sail better than most motorsailers, and motor much more efficiently than most of the powerboats (I've heard 0.6gph at 6.5kts, which is fantastic compared to the 2-3nmpg of the more efficient displacement trawlers).  And trawlers suck for daysailing.  

Getting to Catalina from SD is realistically all motoring.  Back is all motoring and downwind, which I think either the 2-46 or Lagoon 35 would do well in.  

 
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Veeger

Super Anarchist
You're 'on track' for the right concept.  There should be any number of Cal 2-46's around on the west coast.  Keep looking for one.  There's several up here in the NW corner of Washington state (don't know whether they are for sale...).  When the wife 'loves' it, well, it's a mistake to ignore that reality.  Much better to have her support for the inevitable bills and time commitments.

I think I'm looking for a similar solution but 'may' have the luxury of a larger budget..... she wants something this summer!

 

bgytr

Super Anarchist
4,844
492
That Cal 2-46 looks like it would be good for living aboard.  As far as sailing goes, if it's 14+ kts with the wind aft of 70 true, you might be able to turn the engine off.  If you don't mind the engine rumble, have at it, cuz I suspect you will be motoring almost all the time.

BUT...

If the wife is set on it..... well, maybe a powerboat with a mast ain't all bad.

 

socalrider

Super Anarchist
1,304
659
San Diego CA
You're 'on track' for the right concept.  There should be any number of Cal 2-46's around on the west coast.  Keep looking for one.  There's several up here in the NW corner of Washington state (don't know whether they are for sale...).  When the wife 'loves' it, well, it's a mistake to ignore that reality.  Much better to have her support for the inevitable bills and time commitments.

I think I'm looking for a similar solution but 'may' have the luxury of a larger budget..... she wants something this summer!
Thanks - interested to see where you head next.  Any comments on the Lagoon 35 vs 2-46 based on your experience with cats?  I know they're about as different in form as two boats can be, but as I mentioned, oddly similar in actual useable space (tankage/storage aside). 

Wife loved the Lagoon as well, and really loves the idea of no heeling.  

 

Max Rockatansky

Max Rockatansky
3,539
816
You may have to do some work, but you might find a Lagoon TPI, older Catana, older Fontaine-Pajot (f.ex. the Casamance), older Leopard. You might be happier with the performance, comfort and get a bigger boat.

 In re: composting head, I expect you’ll be installing that yourself regardless what you buy

 
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socalrider

Super Anarchist
1,304
659
San Diego CA

GH41

Member
163
39
HHISC
You may have to do some work, but you might find a Lagoon TPI, older Catana, older Fontaine-Pajot (f.ex. the Casamance), older Leopard. You might be happier with the performance, comfort and get a bigger boat.

 In re: composting head, I expect you’ll be installing that yourself regardless what you buy
Yea, the girls might not like the jerky motion of a small cat any more than they like the heeling monohull. 

 

LAZY LIGHTNING II

New member
17
12
At sea
The Kaufman are built very well and are a go anywhere boat.  I saw my boat for the first time in Tahiti.  She continued on to New Zealand and Australia.  I bought her in Seattle keep her there for a number of years. Now in Long Beach.  She is very sea kind and sails well.  Very comfortable for my wife and myself and two cats, and guests have lived and cruised very well on easily.  I know two others who have them including John Kretschmer who writes about sailing, and teaches people how to sail/cruise on Quetzal.  I have seen three Kaufman 47 before I bought this one. 

 

LAZY LIGHTNING II

New member
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12
At sea
IMG_0153.JPG

 

socalrider

Super Anarchist
1,304
659
San Diego CA
The Kaufman are built very well and are a go anywhere boat.  I saw my boat for the first time in Tahiti.  She continued on to New Zealand and Australia.  I bought her in Seattle keep her there for a number of years. Now in Long Beach.  She is very sea kind and sails well.  Very comfortable for my wife and myself and two cats, and guests have lived and cruised very well on easily.  I know two others who have them including John Kretschmer who writes about sailing, and teaches people how to sail/cruise on Quetzal.  I have seen three Kaufman 47 before I bought this one. 
Gorgeous!  I see she has been converted to a sloop rig with the cutter stay removed, same as the one down here.  Do you ever miss the cutter stays'l?  That's one of the things I was concerned with.  The other is the traveler, which is in the cockpit - all the others I've seen are like yours, with mid-boom sheeting.  Probably not too big a deal to relocate.  I know about Quetzal; one of the reasons for my interest.  

Only 2 cabins on this version, but here's a Hanse in San Pedro that should sail better than your average bear:
Has to have berths in cabins for 5 - current boat is a 40-footer with 2 cabins that sails really well.  She'd give me a bit more volume but not worth the cost to switch.  

You might want to take a look at this. Same hull as the Kelly-Peterson but has a different deck/interior design. And it’s in San Diego. (No affiliation, I just like this boat.)
Also only berths for 4 in cabins.  And probably no teak decks allowed, though the boat looks great.  

 

Veeger

Super Anarchist
As a sailboat/cruiser, the Kaufman seems to be a good boat.  The Lagoon 35 is a bit of an odd duck.  Somewhat narrow for its size but perhaps better than a Gemini.  If you like it, it could work but mostly as a weekender, summer va-cay type boat in your neck of the woods.  I think you'll probably be happier with a monohull.  Bigger, heavier ones like the Kaufman will be a pretty comfy ride compared to your soon-to-be 'ex' boat.  If you can enjoy the 60's retro interiors (pretty basic) the Cal 2-46 would do pretty well.  Take care of it and you won't lose too much $$$ on it as the depreciation has been pretty well wrung out of those.  Look for one that's had some money put into it.

Ultimately, in monohulls, I think longer length in general, will get you your desired results.  Slip fees are accumulate over time but are cheaper for a while over trading boats and paying broker fees every few years.

 

steele

Super Anarchist
1,665
191
Land of the locks
You mentioned a french boat as a possibiltiy. The newer ones have more hull volume so you can get away with less length, and lower cost. You might look for a deal on an early jeanneau 409 or similar. The european ones are at your price point, I am not sure about US prices. They made a 3 cabin model with a lot of interior space, and not all had furling mains. The cockpit is ideal for your use, wide open with all controls led back to the dual steering stations. I sailed one in light air before deciding on a smaller boat, it did better than I would have predicted. They sold a lot in the PNW with deep keels, I recall lead was an option but I suspect most are iron.

The downside is lots of complex systems, not always well implemented. Interior quality is marginal, but the kids are going to beat it up anyway.

 

LAZY LIGHTNING II

New member
17
12
At sea
All of the the Kaufmans' were custom. Mine was always a sloop rigged.  I also have never seen another one with opening ports in the side of the cabin.  I do like the mid boom sheeting for a cruising boat. I seen it done across the cockpit bridge but it would be in way of dogger/ Bimini.

 
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