Help me spec a new rig

[Snowden]

So as not to blow the faired profile away? I actually don't know. 

I'd thought of dropping mine to take a good look at the studs, but since its lead then they're no doubt J bolts cast in place, I can't really inspect past what's poking out. 
I'm interested to find out how far off square your keel / rudder are. What do they use a reference point?

Because it's cast iron so would rust extremely quickly with nothing to cover it

You have to align everything with everything (chainplates, deck collar, mast heel, rudder bearings, stem etc) and after a few goes around you figure out what is straight and what is not. Ultimately the trailing edge of the keel was a few cm off centreline and the bulb was a few cm over to port. Thankfully the rest of the boat seems straight so the new rudder bearings can go where the old ones were and we can fix the keel alignment by rebedding the bolts.

 

[Snowden]

We are getting close on the new rig specs. This proposal would see the forestay going up 90 cm or so - this is a compromise (jib aspect ratio already high with short J) but the unsupported topmast section (@ <90% fractional) was causing issues with MH kites and no runners.

CC138 is Selden’s largest keelboat carbon section but it is quite a bit smaller than the Z spars Z301 alu it is replacing. 
 

 

[Snowden]

General pics ready for painting (will be a grey Durepox finish)

Keel and hull after alignment - the shiny grey compound hardens and locks the alignment between the mating surfaces. There was a load of nasty rust on top of the fin where it was not properly glassed which the guys have ground back and repaired.

 

[Snowden]

Rudder stock with new bearings on and a couple more layers of directional carbon to stop it flexing at speed (we are still trying to beat the previous owners' record of a 19 kt surf). There is a clamp that bolts on between these two that the pilot quadrant keys into.

 

[Snowden]

Some water was getting into the resin core (this boat is an early SCRIMP type construction) around the lower bearing, which was scraped out and re-injected

New tube and bearing carriers in. This is a Jefa self-aligning system. After all this had cured a notch gets cut out in the centre for the pilot quadrant

 

[JL92S]

Make sure Selden spec the spreader roots properly, all the J88s blew theirs up!

 

[Snowden]

I hope so! I wonder if the J/88 experience is driving what seems like conservatism on the forestay height. Shipping stuff across the border into 'Global Britain' is increasingly painful post-Brexit so the fact that Selden make the carbon rigs in Gosport is a bit of a draw.

Probably going to delete the 2:1 halyard and go for a 1x masthead and 1x frac halyard keeping my 2:1 sprit end tackline for the FR0. Seems like a lot of string at the top of the mast for a boat this size otherwise and realistically I am not going to mouse it every time I'm not using it.

 

[Bebmoumoute]

Hi,

I used to co-own Wee Bear, and it is great to see she is getting pimped.

We had 5 great years with her, and despite the fact that we were running her on a much tighter budget, we had some decent results, both fully crewed and double handed. We would have kept her if one of the co-owners didn't move away from Southampton.

It is also great to see that our record still holds ! This was during a double handed round the Island race (going the "wrong" way for some reason) in a long surf using the A3.

She is a truly great fun boat. She can be challenging to get going upwind, and lots of fun in a blow and waves downwind. One year, we averaged around 15 knots between the Needles and Bembridge round the island.

Some photos from the past below...

 

[Snowden]

View attachment 420693

View attachment 420694

I am glad to see some independent verification of that number! We got to 16.3 2H on the bloody freezing Cervantes trophy back in 2019, again with A3 up... must try harder.

 

[Snowden]

I used to co-own Wee Bear, and it is great to see she is getting pimped.

She is a truly great fun boat. She can be challenging to get going upwind, and lots of fun in a blow and waves downwind. One year, we averaged around 15 knots between the Needles and Bembridge round the island.

Thanks for the pics and the memories. As you say, a great fun boat! I've had her since mid-2018 and have been experimenting and learning all that time. Last year we made some progress getting in the groove upwind, I think swapping the furling headsail for hanks and inhaulers and a new main with more roach has helped a lot there. We also gave up using the DH IRC certificate with the J3 instead of J2 as the lack of power in anything sub about 12 knots was painful.

My biggest challenge is finding the VMG angles in lighter conditions downwind and resisting my temptation to stare at electronics.

 

[Ultraman]

What is holding this boat up in the air?  Couple of chain hoists on the chainplates and a strap to the bow/stern? 

How does it stay level especially the first time it was picked up?  Does it move/swing about when someone touches it?

Whoever is doing the sanding/painting underneath is mighty brave!

 

[JL92S]

I hope so! I wonder if the J/88 experience is driving what seems like conservatism on the forestay height. Shipping stuff across the border into 'Global Britain' is increasingly painful post-Brexit so the fact that Selden make the carbon rigs in Gosport is a bit of a draw.

Probably going to delete the 2:1 halyard and go for a 1x masthead and 1x frac halyard keeping my 2:1 sprit end tackline for the FR0. Seems like a lot of string at the top of the mast for a boat this size otherwise and realistically I am not going to mouse it every time I'm not using it.

I would seriously consider 2 masthead halyards but with a deflector on the starboard halyard to make it fractional if you need to. The J111 Jitterbug has exactly that so they can fly a fractional A3. I think the idea first came from Minis

 

[Snowden]

I assume you refer to this sort of system (pic from Selden)? Have used similar things doing foredeck work on other boats, it's a neat setup. Would want to confirm that it would be OK for code zero loads but otherwise makes a lot of sense.

 

[Snowden]

What is holding this boat up in the air?  Couple of chain hoists on the chainplates and a strap to the bow/stern? 

How does it stay level especially the first time it was picked up?  Does it move/swing about when someone touches it?

Whoever is doing the sanding/painting underneath is mighty brave!

Pretty much. This is JW Creations' shed in HYS, their lift is rated for two tons so we rolled the boat (2.7 tons) in on its trailer and lifted it off the keel (1.04 tons)

When I went clambering over it the other week it seemed very stable. Tim at Race Yacht Services gets his second shout out of the thread for bravery!

 

[Bebmoumoute]

Thanks for the pics and the memories. As you say, a great fun boat! I've had her since mid-2018 and have been experimenting and learning all that time. Last year we made some progress getting in the groove upwind, I think swapping the furling headsail for hanks and inhaulers and a new main with more roach has helped a lot there. We also gave up using the DH IRC certificate with the J3 instead of J2 as the lack of power in anything sub about 12 knots was painful.

My biggest challenge is finding the VMG angles in lighter conditions downwind and resisting my temptation to stare at electronics.

The furler was fitted by the guy who owned her before us as he was doing solo stuff. I would agree that a non-furling jib must be a great improvement upwind. We did fit inhaulers for our last season, but we were not paricularly impressed by the new 1.5 jib we bought then (a One Sails Forte sail). The J1.5/J2 is definitely a requirement in light airs

Ref the main, I don't know if you still have the One Sails one we bought (double taffeta), but it was as big as you could get, especially roach-wise and definitely made an improvement to the upwind speed and the increase in rating was only 1 point if I recollect right.

 

[MiddayGun]

@Snowden Any chance you know / could ask what goop they used for the keel joint? And do they work their way up to full torque on the keel bolts first day, or let the sealant set first and then go full tension?
 

My keel joint needs attention so its always interesting to hear how the pros do it! 

 

[Snowden]

@Snowden Any chance you know / could ask what goop they used for the keel joint? And do they work their way up to full torque on the keel bolts first day, or let the sealant set first and then go full tension?

It is some kind of epoxy, you torque it while it is setting to record the alignment.

Here is another gratuitous photo I found of Raptor / Aztec, the 1996 Mills 30 CHS. They have a symmetric pole STL bowsprit but otherwise would love to achieve something similar:

 

[Snowden]

After some time going back and forth between Norths and Selden we have a rig design we are happy with. Mast is going back 90 mm with chainplates staying in the same place (18 degrees sweep), this should help balance upwind and let me take some rake out versus the current setup without losing all helm. J is still pretty short for a 9.2m boat at 3.35. Forestay attachment point is moving up but we should get some IRC relief with a short luff jib. Current rating is 0.985, let's see where that goes.

Mocking up for the new collar with a dummy section:

 

[Bebmoumoute]

Has the new stick arrived?

 

[Snowden]

Sadly not until late May - Selden are apparently as busy as they have ever been. Interestingly, they are working on the rig for the new Farr X2 in parallel and we are piggybacking on some of the ideas that have gone into that. They are making a carbon version of their rodkicker... let's see but I can always put the old Barton strut back on.

Have ordered a new 3Di AP jib from Norths though, 20.7 sqm reefing to 18 sqm with soft hanks. Slightly larger than the old #2, which was 19 sqm, but shorter luff enabled by the new longer J measurement and a small square top (apparently an IRC gain). Will pack the 2016 Nordac #3 (16 sqm) as a HW jib for Cat 3 racing. Need to think about Code Zeros, probably get the 2019 FR0 recut and ditch the Carl's Quantum MH0 or convert it into a garden ornament or something. We just moved house and the conservatory is becoming an oven in the sunshine :-D

For those that are interested, the IRC number went from 0.985 to 0.990 with +1.7 sqm HSA, no change in rig factor from the carbon mast (1.010) and no change in weight (TBC, added a battery, half a bulkhead and a floorboard so I think it's roughly flat but need to get her weighed when rigged). The tube weight saving should be (?) 1 kg / m and the mast plus boom is only 19 metres. Battery weighs about a ton or feels like it anyway. I think some of the standing rigging is down a size but not sure yet. We did take out the cathedrals.

Current projects are repainting some of the interior, tidying up electronics and figuring out deck gear layout. Bottom job (Durepox) is looking great.