Hobie 21 SE for fun inland family sailing ? Or is there a better boat ?

[ex18er]

I'm an ex Hobie 18 and Laser sailor/racer.  Haven't sailed for 10 years.   Looking to get back into it. 

I want/need a boat that is fast, fun, simple and can haul around more than 2 people.   Maybe take 2 adults and a few kids across the lake, in a pinch, 3 people out for an afternoon blast, that sort of thing. 

Whatever I buy has to be fast and fun.  I don't want a under sailed keelboat that plods along at displacement speed.

I've been looking.  I think the best candidate I've found is the Hobie 21 SE, which surprises me a bit.  These boats went out of production in the early 90s, 30 years ago.  But there are some good examples around and parts seem to be available.  I'd have to refurbish one to get a nice one.

Is this worth it ?   Am I missing something that the best fun, fast boat I can find is a 30 year old beach cat ?  Isn't there a dingy that is comparable for room, speed, etc ?

I absolutely loved my Hobie 18 when I had it.  Sailed the hell out of it.

Thoughts ?

 

[Rasputin22]

You can have a lot of fun on a H-21 especially with the sport features. Comfortable boat with those bench seats. 

 

[See Level]

I had a Hobie 21  it takes time to go from trailer to sailer due to 10' beam,  (and requires several strong people to get the hull and trailer bunks to slide out) and then  having to tighten up the tramp lacing.

If you have a place to keep it where it can be left assembled it's a great boat but if you're looking for something that can go from home to lake for an afternoon sail kits not the boat.

I've also owned a hobie 16 and 18 and a Tornado, The 21 was much more forgiving in the zone of death than either of the other 3. Probably due to it's weight.

 

[sledracr]

I think the best candidate I've found is the Hobie 21 SE

IIRC (it was a long time ago), the "SC" (Sport Cruiser) version has the same hulls and rig, plus some creature comforts, such as a built-in cooler...

 

[Parma]

I'm an ex Hobie 18 and Laser sailor/racer.  Haven't sailed for 10 years.   Looking to get back into it. 

I want/need a boat that is fast, fun, simple and can haul around more than 2 people.   Maybe take 2 adults and a few kids across the lake, in a pinch, 3 people out for an afternoon blast, that sort of thing. 

Whatever I buy has to be fast and fun.  I don't want a under sailed keelboat that plods along at displacement speed.

I've been looking.  I think the best candidate I've found is the Hobie 21 SE, which surprises me a bit.  These boats went out of production in the early 90s, 30 years ago.  But there are some good examples around and parts seem to be available.  I'd have to refurbish one to get a nice one.

Is this worth it ?   Am I missing something that the best fun, fast boat I can find is a 30 year old beach cat ?  Isn't there a dingy that is comparable for room, speed, etc ?

I absolutely loved my Hobie 18 when I had it.  Sailed the hell out of it.

Thoughts ?

I hear you but think about what your guests will want/enjoy. How old were you when you had the 18?

What's your purchase/annual budget?

 

[ex18er]

You can have a lot of fun on a H-21 especially with the sport features. Comfortable boat with those bench seats. 

My 18 didn't have wings.  I loved the boat, but it would have been so much more comfortable with wings.  Sitting on the tramp got old after a few hours.

I had a Hobie 21  it takes time to go from trailer to sailer due to 10' beam,  (and requires several strong people to get the hull and trailer bunks to slide out) and then  having to tighten up the tramp lacing.

I was wondering about that.

If you have a place to keep it where it can be left assembled it's a great boat but if you're looking for something that can go from home to lake for an afternoon sail kits not the boat.

I would probably move it a few times a summer.   It would mostly be kept at a local lake.  As bad as setting up a 21 might be, it would be less work than moving a keel boat.  Ie no crane or lift required.   And it can be towed behind a normal sized vehicle.

If the cross members were too much of a pain, one could always use a tilting trailer.   Or tow it over width ?

I've also owned a hobie 16 and 18 and a Tornado, The 21 was much more forgiving in the zone of death than either of the other 3. Probably due to it's weight.

I've heard that from several people.  And yet they seem pretty fast.   I've been avoiding Nacras because, to my eye, the hulls seem to lack forward hull buoyancy.  No doubt they are fast.  But I need something that non sailor people can enjoy.

IIRC (it was a long time ago), the "SC" (Sport Cruiser) version has the same hulls and rig, plus some creature comforts, such as a built-in cooler...

The hulls are actually a little bit different.  Don't ask me how, but they aren't interchangeable.   The SC beam is 8 feet.  The cross members aren't adjustable. 

And the SC is a lot heavier.  I think a bare SE is 565 pounds and the SC is like 700.  I could always strap a cooler or two to the tramp.  Or make a rack that goes between the hulls, forward of the front cross member.  As long as the coolers don't foul the jib.

I hear you but think about what your guests will want/enjoy. How old were you when you had the 18?

Mid 30s.  Funny thing was I sailed with a fit guy in his 60s.  We sailed the hell out of that boat.

What's your purchase/annual budget?

I have money but I'm cheap.  But I'm at the point in my life where I want to spoil myself with some toys.

I figure I can do a nice refurbishment on a 21SE for $7000, maybe less.  New rigging, sails, tramp, seats, some paint, etc. 

I was looking at racer/cruisers in the $30-50K range, something we could spend a night or two on.  I don't mind cruising around and I'd love to spend nights on a nicer boat anchored in nice spots.   But I need some adrenalin.  If the boat doesn't plane downwind, I'm probably not interested in it.

The other boat I think is pretty interesting is a Martin 243.  But they are pretty rare and I'm not sure it gives a better experience than the 21SE.  Ideally I'd have both because I think the 243 is really sexy !  LOL.   Another downfall with the 243 is that you can't really single hand them.  People do single hand the 21SE in a pinch. 

I find it really interesting that there doesn't appear to be a modern version of the 21SE.   And if there was, I bet it would cost a small fortune.

Thrills for dollars, am I wrong to think the 21SE can't be beat ?

 

[Bsquared]

I would get a Hobie 20 instead of the 21.  Can hold almost as much weight and quite a bit lighter and much easier to set up and move.  You CAN put 18 wings on a 20, but they are hard to find.  Get a furling jib and it becomes a lot more manageable in breeze.

 

[ex18er]

I would get a Hobie 20 instead of the 21.  Can hold almost as much weight and quite a bit lighter and much easier to set up and move.  You CAN put 18 wings on a 20, but they are hard to find.  Get a furling jib and it becomes a lot more manageable in breeze.

https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/23932

The H20 is probably a pretty decent boat.  But I can put a square top sail on the 21SE and it is more stable going downwind for flying a spinnaker/gennaker.  

Sailing/speed wise, I like the fact that the 21SE has a 10 foot beam.  With a big rig you'd be out on the trapeze all the time with an 8 foot beam.

I also like that the 21 has centerboards rather than dagger boards.   Daggerboards probably perform better, but centerboards are so much easier to use.

 

[ex18er]

FYI, the mast on the SC is 28 feet.   The mast on the SE is 33 feet.   The SC beam is 8 feet whereas the SE beam is 10 feet.  More righting moment = bigger sail plan.

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/hobie-21-se

 

[maxstaylock]

Such a shame the Farrier 22 didn't quite blossom before Ian's untimely death, sounds like it would have answered all your requirements very well.  Must be some trimarans in the ballpark over there?  Not knocking the Hobie, a great boat and concept for it's time, but if it's the best answer to your question, the US marine industry is failing at everything except gas guzzling wakeboat shitters for guys with big trucks and small penises.

 

[SCANAS]

Apart from the 100k price 

 

[maxstaylock]

As with anything, it's not the sticker price, its the amortised running cost, so the cost per hour of running it, the cost per year of owning it.  The 5k boat that needs everything doing to it, then snaps in half once you've spent it all, is not necessarily a bargain compared to the boat that costs buttons to own and run but cost more to buy.  If the sticker price was artificially high, but the product had really tapped into a seam of genuine demand in the market, others would have brought out G22's and H22's in competition.  My boat is a 5k boat only because the first 2 owners took a 50% haircut each on it, does not mean I expect the builder to actually churn them out for 5k.  I pay more to keep it running than the first 2 owners, and sometimes get beat by 20k boats.  Such as life, I'm still glad people buy new boats, I will get a stab at them eventually.

A boat which goes quickly, is trailable, can take between 1 and 4 people, and has space to keep some bags and a bbq dry, seems like a trimaran, of course it would cost more than a 40 year old chopper gun beach cat, but should be less than a 600hp monstrosity, it all depends on your own cost/comfort/fun matrix.

 

[ex18er]

The entire Hobie lineup has proven remarkably durable.   And there seems to me there is a bit of a resurgence happening with these boats.

I am not aware of any Hobie boats that used chopped fiberglass.  The hulls on Hobies are generally pretty good.  

It seems funny that a 30 year old boat should be at the top of my list.  But I still haven't heard anyone else come up with a better candidate.

 

[fastyacht]

The entire Hobie lineup has proven remarkably durable.   And there seems to me there is a bit of a resurgence happening with these boats.

I am not aware of any Hobie boats that used chopped fiberglass.  The hulls on Hobies are generally pretty good.  

It seems funny that a 30 year old boat should be at the top of my list.  But I still haven't heard anyone else come up with a better candidate.

The reson 30 yo is the bottom ropped out of silboat makrket 30 years back...

 

[F18 Sailor]

I’d consider a Tiger or more modern F18. Newer, less work required to get her in the water. 
 

Another good option is the Nacra Inter 20. Sure, neither boat is quite as stable on a reach as the 21, but more are out there and they are newer boats. I wouldn’t be afraid of the “lack of hull volume” in a modern Nacra (Inter 20 and newer). They are pretty hard to pitchpole,

 

[blurocketsmate]

The H21 would be great for your use. Each version has its advantages. The SC was designed for island hopping and camp cruising.

Also look for a G-Cat 5.7 or 6.1. They're boardless, buoyant, safe, and fast. 

I'd like to have any of these, for taking friends sailing and camp-cruising. I wouldn't be fussy about which.

The Hobie Getaway might be OK too. The Wave was better than I thought it would be.

 

[Foreverslow]

Raced Hobies for 10 years.

The h21 is a big heavy boat

One thing to race with a crew, but who is going to help you set it up.

That mast is a monster.  I am a big SOB, but I fucked my back up trying to put stick up on one at a regatta.

the 21 does not go to weather with those toy centerboards.

If it gets away from you , how are you going to right it if you have the kids with you.

If trailering, you have the hassle of expanding the thing before you can put the mast up.

What lake are you talking about?  Lake Michighan?   21s eat of distance fast.

I would lean to the H-18 SX.   Has the 21 wings for leverage, a set of centerboards that help go to weather, and they take a lot less time to set up.

 

[ex18er]

The h21 is a big heavy boat

One thing to race with a crew, but who is going to help you set it up.

That mast is a monster.  I am a big SOB, but I fucked my back up trying to put stick up on one at a regatta.

Did you use a winch and a helper pole ?

the 21 does not go to weather with those toy centerboards.

The Hobie 17 (una rig) goes to wind crazy good.  Very similar design, same sort of centerboards.  I'll probably convert my 21 to a una rig.

I don't need an all out racing boat.

If it gets away from you , how are you going to right it if you have the kids with you.

They'll be boats around.   Pretty hard to right a H18 by yourself too.

If trailering, you have the hassle of expanding the thing before you can put the mast up.

What lake are you talking about?  Lake Michighan?  

Various inland lakes in the North West.

21s eat of distance fast.

That is what I want to hear !

I would lean to the H-18 SX.   Has the 21 wings for leverage, a set of centerboards that help go to weather, and they take a lot less time to set up.

I sailed an 18 (no wings) for years.  Good boat.  I'm looking for something more.  Every boat has a tradeoff.

18s use semi elliptical dagger boards, not centerboards.