Honestly, who really gives a damn about Afghanistan?

Lark

Supper Anarchist
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Check out the news.    They didn’t fight any better then the men in their lives.   They all just gave up despite all the guns we gave them.

 
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ShortForBob

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quod umbra said:
So sad. Should there not have been a UN Peacekeeping force there like a decade ago?

Those poor people who do not wish Taliban rule.

The US, under Joe Biden, has failed terribly and the world will not soon forget.

Just a matter of time before more terrorist fundamentalists are setting up shop. 
Um, I think TFG started the withdrawal. And lets not discuss the Kurds.

The US withdrawal is a disgrace. Abandoning not only the Afghanis but their allies as well. And commandeering the Airport in Kabul to do it.

 

Sol Rosenberg

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If the US is going to be tasked with guaranteeing human rights, I suggest that we start right here at home first. Once that pipe dream comes to fruition we can branch out right here in our own back yard to Cuba and Haiti. 
 

Of course, those places won’t have much need for their own air forces and armies, at least not to the extent that would make it profitable for the Best Americans. Afghanistan was about money, not rights. 

 

ShortForBob

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quod umbra said:
No Meli, what Trump did was to negotiate terms and conditions for US withdrawal. If Biden thought that was in error, then he should have made any necesary changes to the agreement.
What Biden did is what Biden always does..... as President Barak Obama observed, "Don't underestimate Joe's ability to fuck things up."
They both have blood on their hands.

 

phillysailor

Super Anarchist
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Blaming this debacle on any one person or entity is dumb. This clusterfuck was decades, even centuries in the making.

This is how wars in Afghanistan end. Badly.

The police and troops hadn’t been paid in months. The Taliban are flush with cash, apparently, and started to invest in “cease fire” agreements with local authorities which were actually surrender agreements as soon as they concluded talks with Trump.

The GOP has taken down all references to this agreement on their website, but that can’t change that the Taliban have been preparing for this moment by capitalizing on demoralized Afghan troops and a weak and corrupt Afghan government.

Assuming reports that Ashraf Ghani left with as much cash as he could carry are true, the corruption started at the top and informed the actions at all levels of government.

We have been let down by our allies, and nobody really should be surprised, since they’ve been letting us down for a couple of decades.

The Taliban are the natural leaders of this society, and although we should do our best to save those individuals who have earned our trust, this debacle is simply culture and history showing yet another foreign occupier the wisdom of The Princess Bride: stay out of Afghanistan if you want to keep your pride and save your soldiers.

In the meantime, note the similarities in the photos of the Taliban
Taliban-Kabul.jpg
occupying the halls of government and the recent mob that briefly occupied the Capitol.

Thats how close we came to a coup. We need our focus and our $ at home, fighting our domestic pseudo-religious armed factions.

GettyImages-1294933307-e1609972008701-768x487.jpg

 

Jake1-640x400.jpg


 
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phillysailor

Super Anarchist
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@Mohammed Bin Lyin is absolutely right!

How dare Pelosi be limited by history, cultural differences, or the lack of control America has over countries and religions?

She should singlehandedly end the maltreatment of children and women around the world! Immediately!

Her inability to provide handouts and elevate the economic and educational opportunities for all oppressed people proves the failure of socialism in general and the Democrats in specific.

All hail MBL for his insight and wisdom!

 

Raz'r

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Um, I think TFG started the withdrawal. And lets not discuss the Kurds.

The US withdrawal is a disgrace. Abandoning not only the Afghanis but their allies as well. And commandeering the Airport in Kabul to do it.
What choice did we have? 5000 dead Americans, 20,000 injured, $2T, 20 years of occupation and the Taliban still held 40% of the land, and clearly the minds of the people. 
 

just go another 20?

 

Raz'r

Super Anarchist
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quod umbra said:
No Meli, what Trump did was to negotiate terms and conditions for US withdrawal. If Biden thought that was in error, then he should have made any necesary changes to the agreement.
What Biden did is what Biden always does..... as President Barak Obama observed, "Don't underestimate Joe's ability to fuck things up."
Wait, so we should’ve stayed? How long? Cause it was ordained to end this way.

 

kent_island_sailor

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Um, I think TFG started the withdrawal. And lets not discuss the Kurds.

The US withdrawal is a disgrace. Abandoning not only the Afghanis but their allies as well. And commandeering the Airport in Kabul to do it.
Meli,

You wanted the war to go on and on and on for 20-30-40 more years? Are you volunteering any of your family to fight there? I had family there fighting, did you?

This is the eternal curse of being the USA: You warmongers invade everyone! Go Home! Why do you think you can go around the world with your military and drones and just blow up, burn down, shoot, invade, and destroy anyplace you want to. You don't belong here!

Oh wait........what the fuck...........I didn't think anyone would actually listen to all that bullshit..........where are you going...........COME BACK WE DIDN'T MEAN IT

Last I checked Australia has armed forces of some kind. Exactly nothing and no one is stopping you from invading Afghanistan. Why aren't you?

 

Steam Flyer

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Mohammed Bin Lyin said:
It was the US who started fucking things up in Afghanistan when you backed the Mujahideen against the Russians.   ...
Right

Because Afghanistan was so well-governed, so prosperous, so mutually benevolent... Afghanistan in history was a shining beacon to humanity, before this!

- DSK

 

kent_island_sailor

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Right

Because Afghanistan was so well-governed, so prosperous, so mutually benevolent... Afghanistan in history was a shining beacon to humanity, before this!

- DSK
There is a bit of a point there, but deciding what to do in the 20th century from the 21st century is vastly easier than doing it at the time :rolleyes:   It may have been wiser to leave the mujaheddin alone, but absent a time machine we'll never know. The Russians were NEVER to convert the place to a 20th century 1st world country. Like us, they held part of the country and the locals behaved as long as the army was there to make them and they went right back to the 7th century as soon as they could.

 

Raz'r

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quod umbra said:
Where exactly did I say we should have stayed?
Pretty much the choice was to stay or leave. You didn’t like leave. Oh, I know, was just another opportunity to criticize uncle Joe, stay OR leave.

 

kent_island_sailor

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Pretty much the choice was to stay or leave. You didn’t like leave. Oh, I know, was just another opportunity to criticize uncle Joe, stay OR leave.
You are missing the third option: The USA uses their <insert miracle here> device to somehow make the Afghans behave without it looking like a war.

 

Bus Driver

Cunning Linguist
quod umbra said:
No Meli, what Trump did was to negotiate terms and conditions for US withdrawal. If Biden thought that was in error, then he should have made any necesary changes to the agreement.
What Biden did is what Biden always does..... as President Barak Obama observed, "Don't underestimate Joe's ability to fuck things up."
Yep.  He negotiated directly with the Taliban.  Kept the Afghan government out of the process.  The Taliban knew they'd won, with that maneuver.

Brilliant negotiator, The Former Guy is.

 

kent_island_sailor

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quod umbra said:
By both you mean Obama and Biden, right?

Trump was working on an exit strategy. Good or bad.
Biden had no exit strategy.

Nothing sadder than watching free Afagnies begging to be air lifted as they run along side US planes evacuating US nationals.
Did you use strategy and Trump in the same sentence? :lol: :lol:

He had no strategy to flush the toilet, let alone something complicated. WTF would such a strategy even be? Leave really slowly, like one person per year so we are gone in 3,000 years :rolleyes:

 
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