Honestly, who really gives a damn about Afghanistan?

Sol Rosenberg

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Actually, it's kinda a bullshit idea, as the force there was multinational up till quite recently. (Dont forget Poland!) - so - it already existed. 

As to getting them blue helmets instead of their own colors, you'd have to ask China and Russia why not.
don't you Dare say anything bad about Russia, Mister! That kinda talk is unAmurican. 

 

Bus Driver

Cunning Linguist
The Afghan government had no desire and no real incentive to compromise. Ashraf Ghani knew he’d be assassinated five minutes or five days after we left, and that his family would be tortured soon after.

They would have sabotaged the “peace” talks and violated terms of the agreement once we purchased their signatures.

Thats how they roll.
As soon as the negotiations were held, it was clear who the US felt would be running the country.  President Biden simply moved it up a bit.

 

Tax Man

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I will ask those who are critical of our exit from Afghanistan to go on the record with their opinion of what the US should have done and why. 
Give their NATO allies a heads up together with time and opportunity to evacuate Afghan interpreters, workers and their families.  The Kandahar air operations were creating a stable environment that was replaced with a vacuum overnight.

 

Sol Rosenberg

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49601984752_b9aa7fdbf3_k-1536x1025.jpg


 

benwynn

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As soon as the negotiations were held, it was clear who the US felt would be running the country.  President Biden simply moved it up a bit.
He may have moved it up a bit, but couldn't he have had some sort of visa and evacuation plan for the Afghans that directly assisted the US (interpreters, etc.)?  It appears we just flat out abandoned these people.  

Maybe it was just a gross miscalculation on how fast shit would hit the fan, based on incomplete intel.  And, while I don't want to appear to blame TFG for everything, wasn't it known quite a while ago that TFG was fucking up our ability to get intel?   

Either way, Biden owns this shitshow.

 

jocal505

moderate, informed gunowner
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A twenty year war adventure...and here we are. Stigma alert, folks.

I gotta ask.

Will this bit become a shameful matter, in our culture, for the volunteers (whose resume's now show service in Afghanistan)? Because we were slurping away, at this military-industrial kool-aid, by choice, for a few decades. 

I feel the shame, if the U.S. fighters do not.  I don't mind sharing it.

 

Sol Rosenberg

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He may have moved it up a bit, but couldn't he have had some sort of visa and evacuation plan for the Afghans that directly assisted the US (interpreters, etc.)?  It appears we just flat out abandoned these people.  

Maybe it was just a gross miscalculation on how fast shit would hit the fan, based on incomplete intel.  And, while I don't want to appear to blame TFG for everything, wasn't it known quite a while ago that TFG was fucking up our ability to get intel?   

Either way, Biden owns this shitshow.
Indeed he does.  He can delegate authority but not responsibility. 

 

Blue Crab

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quod umbra said:
By both you mean Obama and Biden, right?

Trump was working on an exit strategy. Good or bad.
Biden had no exit strategy.

Nothing sadder than watching free Afagnies begging to be air lifted as they run along side US planes evacuating US nationals.
Maybe on Fox but nbc showed folks that looked angry and mentioned some shooting at the planes.

 

Sol Rosenberg

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I think he just lost re-election. Perhaps the party as well.
Nah.  Trump tried to bullshit a virus and killed half a million Americans in the year of the election and still came within a few states of winning. It will be something like socialism or "back the blue" that gets the storm-the-Capitol crowd to the polls. Unless we have new majorities in the House and Senate after 22, which will find insurrection in the Capitol of Afghanistan much more deserving of investigation than insurrection in our own Capitol. 

 

Raz'r

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Give their NATO allies a heads up together with time and opportunity to evacuate Afghan interpreters, workers and their families.  The Kandahar air operations were creating a stable environment that was replaced with a vacuum overnight.
Umm, Biden pretty much told everyone the date months ago(April 14). Western intel agencies generally fucked up thinking the gov't troops would stick around and fight. 

So - Biden did what you suggested.

 

AJ Oliver

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I feel the shame, if the U.S. fighters do not.  I don't mind sharing it.
My conscience is clear. Vets For Peace was adamantly opposed to that imperial cluster from the get-go. 

We marched, we wrote letters, we wrote books and articles, we got arrested, we opened our arms and hearts to many refugees of the Afghan misadventure . . . 

and the nationalist summer soldiers and sunshine patriots blew us off . . 

allow me to suggest that you pay more attention to us in the future. 

And to those of ya who question our patriotism, the reality is that Y'ALL are the traitors ..   got that @Blue Crab ??? 

(The article is about Iraq, but Afghanistan fits just as well .. )

https://www.counterpunch.org/2006/03/21/to-the-guy-who-called-me-a-traitor/

 

Raz'r

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He may have moved it up a bit, but couldn't he have had some sort of visa and evacuation plan for the Afghans that directly assisted the US (interpreters, etc.)?  It appears we just flat out abandoned these people.  

Maybe it was just a gross miscalculation on how fast shit would hit the fan, based on incomplete intel.  And, while I don't want to appear to blame TFG for everything, wasn't it known quite a while ago that TFG was fucking up our ability to get intel?   

Either way, Biden owns this shitshow.
Agree there, our intel agencies failed. That, and we should have gotten the folks that helped us out, long ago.

 

Raz'r

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I think he just lost re-election. Perhaps the party as well.
There was a great segment on NPR this weekend basically saying US Politics are politics of the moment. As Eva Dent. 

Their example was the fall of Saigon. At that point Ford's approval ratings tanked, but were back to pre-fall just 2 short months later.

His re-election may fail, for many different reasons, but I doubt this will be one of them.

 

benwynn

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Nah.  Trump tried to bullshit a virus and killed half a million Americans in the year of the election and still came within a few states of winning. It will be something like socialism or "back the blue" that gets the storm-the-Capitol crowd to the polls. Unless we have new majorities in the House and Senate after 22, which will find insurrection in the Capitol of Afghanistan much more deserving of investigation than insurrection in our own Capitol. 
Karl Rove's strategy of attacking strengths was on full display with John Kerry, and is a proven strategy.  Biden's supposed strength is foreign policy.  It is practically all he has.  Any campaign against him HAS to use this fuck up, and use it extensively. 

 

roundthebuoys

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https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/08/16/afghanistan-history-taliban-collapse-504977

Basically as soon as Trump said "we're leaving" most of the Afghan government forces made deals to quit fighting. If you want to fault the USA, it was laughable to think the government forces were going to do anything but quit the second we left.

If that is all the fight the Afghans have in them to oppose the Taliban, there was no reason to stay another second unless we were going to stay forever.
The only reason we stayed was so the Saigon moment didn't happen on any previous President's watch.  But no one remembers it happened on Ford's watch, just that it happened, and he certainly is not the first guy you think about in that war.  Anyway, Biden doesn't seem to be thinking about a second term in anything he does, he just does what he thinks is right.  This would have happened today anyway if TFG was in office because he wouldn't have cared now either in his second term, that's all he cared about.  He set this up on March 1st, 2020 and had the Taliban wait until after the election.  IMO of course.

 
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