Honestly, who really gives a damn about Afghanistan?

Saorsa

Saorsa

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An apocryphal quote

On September 17, 1787, delegates left the Constitutional Convention in Independence Hall in Philadelphia. As they exited, Benjamin Franklin was asked what kind of government do we have? "A Republic," he replied, "if you can keep it."

It doesn't appear that any Afghani's were committed enough to their country to defend it.  Why the should we?

"Nationbuilding" is a farce.

 
Lark

Lark

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Saorsa said:
An apocryphal quote

On September 17, 1787, delegates left the Constitutional Convention in Independence Hall in Philadelphia. As they exited, Benjamin Franklin was asked what kind of government do we have? "A Republic," he replied, "if you can keep it."

It doesn't appear that any Afghani's were committed enough to their country to defend it.  Why the should we?

"Nationbuilding" is a farce.
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Worst idea President Bush, Secretary Rumsfeld, Darth Cheney and the like ever had, even including their role in Vietnam.   They should have gone in, accepted some dead troops and done the job at Tora Bora themselves instead of trying to hire mercenaries so CNN wouldn't have a body count.   Succeed or fail, they should have left and promised to destroy the largest remaining city every time Afghanistan destroyed a building.   This pretense of 'safe' wars failed miserably.   Plenty of civilians die.   

Yes, before some left winger objects to my unrestricted warfare stance, the Afghans own the actions their government tolerates, just as Americans own the consequences of Bush's wars.  

 
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Sol Rosenberg

Sol Rosenberg

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Lark said:
I'm not critical of our withdrawal.   It was one of the few things Trump got right.   He put it off until after the election for the same reason President Obama and Bush didn't do it.   Obama didn't want to sabotage Senator Clinton's campaign,  President Bush the lessor wanted a second term.    I'm critical of the poor execution.   Its not like the military lacks experience in running away.   

  1. We clearly failed to realize how complete our failure was at training an Afghan military / police.   We acted like we could leave and they wouldn't collapse for weeks.  We gave them plenty of weapons.   It has been claimed they lack air support and can't maintain the equipment they have.   Again, we've been training them for 20 years!  That's enough time to go from kindergarten to aircraft technician!   The Taliban has even less of an air force.
  2. State should have had the Embassy cleaned out to nothing but a few memory sticks and coffee cups weeks ago.   It isn't realistic for the POTUS to micromanage this detail and I realize the State Department was heavily gutted over the last four years, but somebody should have an "Embassy in danger of being over-run" checklist left over from Iran.
  3. We have an ethical responsibility to grant green cards with pathway to citizenship to all those that stuck their necks out to help us!    I don't care if we let the wrong person in and a couple of them try to compete with our Home Grown Terrorists.   Its the ethical burden we face for getting in this mess.    If we give them a chance for a fresh start, odds are most will adapt.    BBB played a long interview with some poor guy hiding in a shop overnight near the airport.  He didn't have proof he spent five years helping our troops so we sent him off to be beheaded.   His interview was compelling.   The world is right to be horrified at our ineptness and embarrassed they aided us under NATO.    We need to let err on the side of humanity and let these people come to America.   Especially the women and children need a plane ride.
  4. We need to have some public hearings in three months, after the dust settles.   We need to figure out which state department idiots and generals lose their retirement.   This has been in the works since Trump.  There is no excuse for incompetence like this.   
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Very well put.  I agree with all of it. I would expand 3 to broaden the class of refugees allowed to seek refuge in the US. 

 
Raz'r

Raz'r

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Clearly a cluster, and I assume the (5000?) new troops dropped in will get some runway security implemented. Hell, if that thing has spooled up it would likely have sucked 10s of people up into those engines.

 
T

The_Real_XYZ

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benwynn said:
Karl Rove's strategy of attacking strengths was on full display with John Kerry, and is a proven strategy.  Biden's supposed strength is foreign policy.  It is practically all he has.  Any campaign against him HAS to use this fuck up, and use it extensively. 
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Yeah, but no one every really cared about that war.  Those who do weren't going to vote for him anyways.  Hell, I bet half the country didn't even know we were there.

 
Movable Ballast

Movable Ballast

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Afghanistan Was a no win from the start but no POTUS wanted to be "the one" to pull out as evidenced by the backlash from all sides of the media for various reasons. I personally think because Joe knows he's only in it for one term he is taking one for the team (team POTUS R&D). 

It had to be done, so good on ya Joe...  

 
V

Ventucky Red

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Movable Ballast said:
It had to be done, so good on ya Joe...  
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I'll stand with you on this. Even in his previous eight years it didn't get done when his boss made this a promise to get elected. 

Glad we're out of there, sad and feel for those that lost love ones to this.. 

 
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AJ Oliver

AJ Oliver

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badlatitude

badlatitude

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Raz'r said:
Clearly a cluster, and I assume the (5000?) new troops dropped in will get some runway security implemented. Hell, if that thing has spooled up it would likely have sucked 10s of people up into those engines.
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I read that quite a few fell to their deaths because they held on until it got to altitude.

 
F

Fakenews

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We should be helping destabilize Afghanistan in our absence.  Build up to Northern alliance which apparently has regional capabilities.  The Taliban is inheriting a mess nationally and a modern capital with power, lights, a healthcare system etc.  They are uneducated thugs, they won’t be able to keep a functioning country and it will devolve into a tribal wasteland.

Not worried about terrorists running around there as they are doing the same in plenty of other countries around the world.  Besides as this year has shown our biggest concern is cyber and domestic white supremacist terrorism.

 
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Jules

Jules

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If our leaders were smart, they would have long ago realized the Taliban is made up of deeply religious people. 

We should have dealt with them on a spiritual level...

Stripers[1].jpg

 
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