Honestly, who really gives a damn about Afghanistan?

Steam Flyer

Super Anarchist
40,180
7,651
Eastern NC
Afghanistan Was a no win from the start but no POTUS wanted to be "the one" to pull out as evidenced by the backlash from all sides of the media for various reasons. I personally think because Joe knows he's only in it for one term he is taking one for the team (team POTUS R&D). 

It had to be done, so good on ya Joe...  
Well said.

The goal we went in for, to oust Al Queda, was accomplished. The secondary goal, to nail Osam Bin Laden, was achieved years later.

We're still there years and years later, and the only two choices on the table are STAY or GO. And we've stayed long enough.

- DSK

 

Fah Kiew Tu

Curmudgeon, First Rank
9,416
2,951
Tasmania, Australia
Meli,

You wanted the war to go on and on and on for 20-30-40 more years? Are you volunteering any of your family to fight there? I had family there fighting, did you?
Meli has an advanced case of dissonance. She has no problems whatsoever holding and actually believing 2 utterly contradictory ideas at the same time.

This is just another example I'm afraid.

How DARE she advocate Western interfere with a long-standing cultural practice?

FKT

 

Lark

Supper Anarchist
9,096
1,455
Ohio
I hold Bush responsible for a mission without obtainable goals.   Those that planned the war deserve equal blame. 

 I hold each of his successors responsible for not cutting our losses.    

I blame Trump for negotiating the withdrawal but kicking the plan down the road,    Whether he planned on keeping America’s word that he gave, if he won, who can guess.    

Biden is guilty of poor execution.    

The generals failed at training the Afghans.  They misled us with reports they were making progress, and a promise they could train.   They should have admitted the task was beyond their ability.   They committed fraud for 20 years. 

a British ex spook on BBC claims the next failure wasn’t intelligence but politicians, for failing to recognize the house of cards would collapse ahead of schedule.    How can we judge?

Finally Biden and the Republicans share responsibility for those we are leaving for execution or worse, because America is scared of Muslims and hates immigrants.    

 
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SloopJonB

Super Anarchist
65,138
10,619
Great Wet North
The bottom line on A'Stan is that while a horror to watch, it is completely beyond fixing - especially by civilized nations.

The same shit has been going on for at least the last millennium - they are still back at the beginning of it in fact.

Multiple nations have sacrificed countless numbers of their children trying to drag that benighted place up to at least the 17th century and all have failed.

The sad and ugly reality is that it's unfixable and they just have to be left alone to kill each other.

 

Left Shift

Super Anarchist
10,283
3,110
Seattle
The bottom line on A'Stan is that while a horror to watch, it is completely beyond fixing - especially by civilized nations.

The same shit has been going on for at least the last millennium - they are still back at the beginning of it in fact.

Multiple nations have sacrificed countless numbers of their children trying to drag that benighted place up to at least the 17th century and all have failed.

The sad and ugly reality is that it's unfixable and they just have to be left alone to kill each other.
Afghanistan is not "unfixable", it's not even broken.  It is a tribal, hardscrabble land that is a region and not an artificially defined nation.   And no, they weren't responsible for 9-11.  Yes, they may have harbored 9-11 fugitives, but so did Pakistan and so did Saudi Arabia.  

Militarily Afghanistan is Vietnam with rocks instead of trees.  It is, finally, ending the same way, with helicopters off roofs. 

We were idiots to try to "fix" both.

Within 10 years, they will discover some valuable commodity (other than poppies) and be building 5-star hotels for the trust-funders who want the ultimate "glamping" experience.  

And if we think that "civilized nations" need to "fix" places like Afghanistan, perhaps those same nations should try to "fix" Florida, Texas or South Dakota.  

 
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kent_island_sailor

Super Anarchist
26,253
4,409
Kent Island!
Afghanistan is not "unfixable", it's not even broken.  It is a tribal, hardscrabble land that is a region and not an artificially defined nation.   And no, they weren't responsible for 9-11.  Yes, they may have harbored 9-11 fugitives, but so did Pakistan and so did Saudi Arabia.  

Militarily Afghanistan is Vietnam with rocks instead of trees.  It is, finally, ending the same way, with helicopters off roofs. 

We were idiots to try to "fix" both.

Within 10 years, they will discover some valuable commodity (other than poppies) and be building 5-star hotels for the trust-funders who want the ultimate "glamping" experience.  
Vietnam is a unified nation with a strong central government that gets on pretty well with the USA. I see no chance of Afghanistan ever making that kind of progress.

 

3to1

Super Anarchist
7a61f6397ea7b45c042175a863e91704.jpeg

Allahu Akbar?

 
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Left Shift

Super Anarchist
10,283
3,110
Seattle
Vietnam is a unified nation with a strong central government that gets on pretty well with the USA. I see no chance of Afghanistan ever making that kind of progress.
It certainly wasn't in 1964.  And the side that is "a strong central government that gets on pretty well with the USA" was the one that we lost 50,000 soldiers fighting while calling them "gooks".  We saw no chance of Vietnam ever making that kind of progress.

 

Left Shift

Super Anarchist
10,283
3,110
Seattle
I hold Bush responsible for a mission without obtainable goals.   Those that planned the war deserve equal blame. 

 I hold each of his successors responsible for not cutting our losses.    

I blame Trump for negotiating the withdrawal but kicking the plan down the road,    Whether he planned on keeping America’s word that he gave, if he won, who can guess.    

Biden is guilty of poor execution.    

The generals failed at training the Afghans.  They misled us with reports they were making progress, and a promise they could train.   They should have admitted the task was beyond their ability.   They committed fraud for 20 years. 

a British ex spook on BBC claims the next failure wasn’t intelligence but politicians, for failing to recognize the house of cards would collapse ahead of schedule.    How can we judge?

Finally Biden and the Republicans share responsibility for those we are leaving for execution or worse, because America is scared of Muslims and hates immigrants.    
There are really very few ways to handle retreat elegantly.  Especially when you have been spreading billions of dollars around buying nothing but sycophants and suck-ups and thinking they were "hearts & minds".  Even the best generals can fuck up a retreat:

th-1.jpeg

 

Fakenews

Super Anarchist
13,111
1,616
It certainly wasn't in 1964.  And the side that is "a strong central government that gets on pretty well with the USA" was the one that we lost 50,000 soldiers fighting while calling them "gooks".  We saw no chance of Vietnam ever making that kind of progress.
That’s because we are morons.  The had a rich history, plenty of Western influence and a tremendous work ethic.  Afghanistan is largely populated by vicious, uneducated Neanderthals with a theology problem.  Kind of like today’s GOP.

 
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The_Real_XYZ

Super Anarchist
1,315
256
mi
This thing is a First Lady? That screams trailer park. 
Was she born behind the Iron Curtain?  Might explain trumps connections, she was probably hooking for all the communist party bigwigs.  I mean, any woman who marries trump is obviously trading sex for money.  Not to put down women who do that, you do what you have to to stay alive.  Hope she is paid well, that dude is nasty.

 

badlatitude

Super Anarchist
27,382
3,743
Any video of that ? God do I miss Live Leaks. 
Not that I could find beyond the airport video. I think I read it on the Wall Street Journal.

Edit to add: LiveLeak was picked up by Itemfix, I don't think they will be around long. High school level stuff.

 
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Olsonist

Super Anarchist
27,505
3,233
New Oak City
Through Fiscal Year 2020, the United States federal government has spent or obligated $6.4 trillion dollars on the post-9/11 wars in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, and elsewhere. 

https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/economic

I remember when the Kenyan had the arrogance of just putting these wars on the budget cycle. Fox News was all over that shit for increasing the deficit.

We laughed at the Russians for getting stuck in the quagmire of Afghanistan. Then we were so stupid, we got stuck there twice as long. China is doubtlessly laughing at us and has been laughing at us, justifiably.

Fucking stupid. Don't blame this shit on the guy who got us out. Blame it on the fuckhead who got us in.

Fuck you, W.

 
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