How about a The Ocean Race thread?

[Chimp too]

There is an argument that sending the V65's around again, even with crew restrictions, is a hand brake to Imoca teams getting hot and bothered about the race.

Or more importantly, hand brake sponsors. €6m for a VO65 campaign where you know what you get and will have a competitive boat. Or at least €15m for an IMOCA and you might not stand a chance. Plus you can play the youth and women card far harder, and are likely to get similar exposure with the 65.

what sponsor is going to want to triple their investment with no guarantee of tripling their return?

 

[jack_sparrow]

what sponsor is going to want to triple their investment with no guarantee of tripling their return?

Plus in some parts of the race track getting passed.

 

[Chimp too]

Plus in some parts of the race track getting passed.

Exposure is all the sponsors really care about. What if the IMOCA race is a procession, be it fast, with one or two TOR specific designs walking away with it as the VG boats back off to survival mode, or don’t go uphill. But the 65 race is tight and exciting, even in slower boats, with excited youths rather than dull pros. Is TOR going to concentrate more PR on the more expensive teams or what excites the general public and sponsors targets more? 

If the top three aren’t decided until the last hour in the 65s, but is set in the 60s before they cross the Atlantic, the 60s will be ignored and the race talked about and publicised will be the 65 race.

huge risk to take and to me an obvious choice.

 

[stick]

Seems to me they were in a tough spot. No headline sponsor to underwrite a new OD class to then “rent out” over 2-3 cycles.

VO65 looking outdated and not going to have enough prestige (and how tired are the boats?).

So solution is to find a ready made class competitors can rent, and with (relatively) moderate build costs for anyone who fancies building a new one, hence IMOCAs. Problem is they’re now locked in as a side show/second rank to the VG, RdR, etc. and with a boat not optimised for a (non FR) sponsor driven route.

I wonder how much they investigated an owner based race. Seems to me that outside France that’s where the big money is getting spent in sailing, Maxi72, TP52, Fast 40, etc. Problem is how many of those owners want to finance a campaign they won’t be on or have to take a year out to do. Classes like TP52 are talking about changing calendars to reduce time commitment, which wouldn’t fit with a long race. But to my mind if the race has a future that could be one. Say 90ft canting monos (that can then race as a class in fastnet, middle sea, S2H, etc.). Then a more traditional course, say, Europe, CT, Syd, NZ, BA/Rio/Carib, Newport, Europe to minimise time on board and appeal to owners. There’s lots of problems with this approach but are they less than an imoca side show?

 

[Potter]

Seems to me they were in a tough spot. No headline sponsor to underwrite a new OD class to then “rent out” over 2-3 cycles.

VO65 looking outdated and not going to have enough prestige (and how tired are the boats?).

So solution is to find a ready made class competitors can rent, and with (relatively) moderate build costs for anyone who fancies building a new one, hence IMOCAs. Problem is they’re now locked in as a side show/second rank to the VG, RdR, etc. and with a boat not optimised for a (non FR) sponsor driven route.

I wonder how much they investigated an owner based race. Seems to me that outside France that’s where the big money is getting spent in sailing, Maxi72, TP52, Fast 40, etc. Problem is how many of those owners want to finance a campaign they won’t be on or have to take a year out to do. Classes like TP52 are talking about changing calendars to reduce time commitment, which wouldn’t fit with a long race. But to my mind if the race has a future that could be one. Say 90ft canting monos (that can then race as a class in fastnet, middle sea, S2H, etc.). Then a more traditional course, say, Europe, CT, Syd, NZ, BA/Rio/Carib, Newport, Europe to minimise time on board and appeal to owners. There’s lots of problems with this approach but are they less than an imoca side show?

They have Volvo cars putting in money,  with no necessity to take the title sponsorship place, so they are in a good place financially. 

They were never going to do a new OD fleet. That was an idea of Mark Turner's and the new owners killed it as soon as they stepped into the CEO role.

They looked heavily at the private owners,  and (correctly,  IMHO) surmised that it does not work with a mixed fleet, and that owners do not like OD at that cost point. However, there are very strong rumours of at least one private owner building a 60 for TOR. With a strong crew, that normally race his superyacht.

They tried to weight the race towards the IMOCA by removing the 65s from the official TOR title race, but the sheer budget has still put a few people off.

My guess, 8 IMOCA (3 sail the complete course), 8 65s (6 sail the complete course). The TOR media will heavily follow the IMOCA, until the 65 teams, and fans, start kicking off!

 

[Icedtea]

2021 is going to be a busy year

http://www.globe40.com/

Had a read of the press release, and doesn't the course seem a bit odd? From very poor/small areas with very little sponsor value (Cape Verdes) to the just plain remote places (Uashia), it's hard to see the value in those stopovers. 

I like the idea a lot though,

 

[mad4it]

Had a read of the press release, and doesn't the course seem a bit odd? From very poor/small areas with very little sponsor value (Cape Verdes) to the just plain remote places (Uashia), it's hard to see the value in those stopovers. 

I like the idea a lot though,

I think the whole press release was odd. Written like a rally as opposed to a race? Very french - I believe a second Class40 RTW is soon to be announced and it'll be a competition for funding/Class backing that'll win the day. 

 

[Trovão]

I hope I am wrong, but the TOR seems doomed to me.

 

[Chimp too]

However, there are very strong rumours of at least one private owner building a 60 for TOR. With a strong crew, that normally race his superyacht.

My guess, 8 IMOCA (3 sail the complete course), 8 65s (6 sail the complete course). The TOR media will heavily follow the IMOCA, until the 65 teams, and fans, start kicking off!

There is a private owner financing his Maxi crew and the budget is going to kill off the competition in my view. Not going to say who, as not my place.

 I think you are being very optimistic at 8 IMOCA entries. I would say 5 dropping to 2-3 when the serious teams announce and others realise that they are just blowing cash with no chance and better things to do.

 

[Chimp too]

So solution is to find a ready made class competitors can rent, and with (relatively) moderate build costs for anyone who fancies building a new one, hence IMOCAs.

I wonder how much they investigated an owner based race. Seems to me that outside France that’s where the big money is getting spent in sailing, Maxi72, TP52, Fast 40, etc. Problem is how many of those owners want to finance a campaign they won’t be on or have to take a year out to do. Classes like TP52 are talking about changing calendars to reduce time commitment, which wouldn’t fit with a long race. But to my mind if the race has a future that could be one. Say 90ft canting monos (that can then race as a class in fastnet, middle sea, S2H, etc.). Then a more traditional course, say, Europe, CT, Syd, NZ, BA/Rio/Carib, Newport, Europe to minimise time on board and appeal to owners. There’s lots of problems with this approach but are they less than an imoca side show?

Not sure where a relatively moderate build cost comes into IMOCA. 40,000 man hours for composite box, expensive materials and tooling.

 I have worked with a few trying to set up a new ocean racing class to replace the VO70s and whilst lots of excitement, getting agreement is very hard. A lot of owners might not have the time to do the whole race but do have the Southern Ocean on their bucket list. The problem is that their crews won’t sell it to them as they would have to work a lot harder for their money and not go home every night.

 

[MR.CLEAN]

There is a private owner financing his Maxi crew and the budget is going to kill off the competition in my view. Not going to say who, as not my place.

Is it a swede with his own island and some tech smarts? 

 

[Chimp too]

Is it a swede with his own island and some tech smarts? 

Nope

 

[stick]

Not sure where a relatively moderate build cost comes into IMOCA. 40,000 man hours for composite box, expensive materials and tooling.

 I have worked with a few trying to set up a new ocean racing class to replace the VO70s and whilst lots of excitement, getting agreement is very hard. A lot of owners might not have the time to do the whole race but do have the Southern Ocean on their bucket list. The problem is that their crews won’t sell it to them as they would have to work a lot harder for their money and not go home every night.

Sure, it’s not cheap, but I’d think it’s a fair whack cheaper than a new VO70 type custom would be.

I can see how a hotel in Porto Cervo seems like a better option for the crew than a wet black box in the southern ocean!

 

[Fiji Bitter]

There is a private owner financing his Maxi crew and the budget is going to kill off the competition in my view. Not going to say who, as not my place.

Got to be David Witt/Scallywag sun hung kai/Lee Seng Huang.

Anyway, would hope so.

 

[shanghaisailor]

And a fiscal disaster that would have killed the VOR two cycles ago. Folks don't seem to appreciate how shitty the coverage was before the VO65 and how by Cape Town, you could look at the results between diff boats and know who has a realistic chance and who will only win if everyone else had serious boat damage. 

If you think OD free to watch coverage is hard to monetize in 2019, think about how impossible it is to monetize a 9 month event where the result is almost predictable by 2nd month and the onboard coverage is so slow and far removed it is like 1980. 

Spot on Miffy. First Abu Dhabi campaign, the one where the VO70 won the Fastnet, Ian Walker said they had a problem. The boat was fast, sure, but in the wrong wind direction for the VOR  - and guess what - they were last. In fact ii is doubtful that Abu Dhabi Tourist Authority would have gone again if it hadn't been one design.

AS far as the above comments about "it doesn't excite me" or whatever, well it is not targeted to excite we sailors. Sponsors want their name to be noticed - it's why they do it and if they were just targeting single figure % points it wouldn't work. No - they want the wider audience which is why the world's 2nd largest economy will always be on the map as a stopover. It's not because China is a sailing powerhouse with tens of thousands of sailing fans hungry to see the boats, it is quite simply because China has more  millionaires than Europe.

If sponsors thought painting their name on the shells of racing snails would sell their product that's what they would sponsor. For that reason I just cannot understand how, with the coverage the VOR (and no doubt now TOR) provided plus a 90 foot high billboard and 8-10 pretty unique B2B venues around the world that the VOR/TOR find it so difficult to find sponsors. I have heard some of their pitches and they couldn't sell a starving man a burger and sponsors are ONLY interested in ROI - end of story.

If someone can sell a Chinese motor company the idea of forking out the Euro20m or so in a country where sailing is still in its infancy ( I know I was there at its birth) then surely with the right sales techniques companies in countries were sailing is known and popular could be encouraged to get behind a team. GBR, AUS, USA, NZL, GER, FRA, ITA etc etc.

Of course it doesn't help that we are only 2 years out and the route isn't even on the table. How are teams or the TOR itself going to encourage a corporate to fork out good brass if the race might not even touch their current (or targeted future) markets.

I have said it before "tick-tock"

Potter talks a lot of sense and I tend to agree with his numbers, I don't think they will be far off. If he is right of course it will be the largest VOR/TOR fleet this century, long gone are the groups of adventurers, those sort of people now just need to sign up for a Clipper Berth. Nothing wrong with that but it will always take some numbers out of the equation.

I hope I am wrong and we get more entries than the race can handle almost but I seriously doubt it.

SS

 

[Monkey]

Got to be David Witt/Scallywag sun hung kai/Lee Seng Huang.

Anyway, would hope so.

I’m hoping for an Imoca Rambler. 

 

[southerncross]

Isn’t it true that most of the sponsors of the IMOCA/TOR boats will be the same European sponsors of the IMOCA/FIG/Ultim/Mini fleets who have a fairly good understanding of the ROI even at $20MM?

I posted this previously from an article:

”In fact, there will not be much difference between an IMOCA 60 designed and built for the Vendée Globe and one built for The Ocean Race.“.

I wonder if they’ve already loaded up an IMOCA with 5 crew and gear on an extended crossing to test this theory?

 

[JeronimoII]

SS, you are always very positive, but your comment of being able to convince Dongfeng to invest 20 Mn EUR forgets that as owners of Volvo Cars they already had a large stake in the event. Surely still a steep sales challenge, but a much easier one when you have your board members praising the event at all your board meetings. 

 

[yl75]

I think the whole press release was odd. Written like a rally as opposed to a race? Very french - I believe a second Class40 RTW is soon to be announced and it'll be a competition for funding/Class backing that'll win the day. 

Could be called very french with the reference to Moitessier : "la grande route" instead of "la longue route", however the yachting rally concept (ARC style) is not a french thing at all, none of them are french organised to my knowledge. By the way there is an interview about this race project in last tip&shaft newsletter :

https://us12.campaign-archive.com/?u=1e692787e2c4cc3370813fca1&id=0ca894ce73

 

[jack_sparrow]

SS, you are always very positive, but your comment of being able to convince Dongfeng to invest 20 Mn EUR forgets that as owners of Volvo Cars they already had a large stake in the event.

Dongfeng don't own Volvo cars. Geely a private Republic of China car company do. Geely did buy Dongs auto division years ago which is only link between the two.  Aktiebolaget Volvo or Volvo AB (commercial/industrial) is completely seperate, public company to Volvo cars but does hold minority share of Dong truck division. Volvo AB own just about every major truck company in world now. There is a Japan's UD Trucks and Dong truck joint venture in China. UD used to be Nissan's trucks and now owned by Volvo AB. Truck business is very incestous but relatively autonomous.

However that Dong/Volvo Chinese only connection certainly greased the wheels for Dongfeng sponsorship. Volvo AB and cars did share VOR but AB don't have any involvement in TOR only Volvo cars where it is now only as a part underwriter, not owner.

BTW you will soon start to see TOR media remove all reference to Volvo even the words ex VOR Race in their material as they try to cement "TOR" as a "standalone" brand that is approaching 50 years old.