How is the vang attached to the mast and how much trouble am I asking for?

[Quickstep192]

I “want” to re-bed the metal collar on my mast. The vang attachment is in the way of raising the collar up more than 1/2”. 
 

There are eight stainless steel bolts going into the aluminum mast. What are the chances they can be removed without seriously screwing up the threads on the mast? Is there a snowball’s chance there are inserts or anything like that in the mast?

Also, if I do remove it, I’m considering raising it up an inch or two when I put it back to make a little more room for the boot. Crazy idea?

 

[ctutmark]

J97 right?

Likely when Hall put the rig together they used some adhesive to secure those fasteners, there also could be a doubler inside the mast. Typically the boot gets replaced when people pull the rig. I would not move the gooseneck. Moving it will likely create other problems

If you want a new boot there are a number of options to replace in place, wrap around tape or a neoprene strip stitched in place. If the wedge system allows the mast to move it will accelerate any boot leaking 

 

[longy]

I don't recall any sealants/adhesives on these spars, as can be seen by the corrosion around the screw heads. Threads are tapped into spar wall, no inserts. I've stripped a whole lot of spars down for painting, I'd bet 2 of those screws would end up being drilled out to remove the fitting. YMMV

 

[Rain Man]

You would likely end up having to re-tap the mast and re-install with larger screws.  If there is a way to avoid removing the collar you'll save yourself a lot of headaches.

 

[SloopJonB]

Forget about revising it - that pic looks like you should be able to seal it with some wraps of wide tape.

 

[bgytr]

Do not move the base of the vang upward.  You will increase the load on both the boom and the mast, not something to mess with.

 

[Quickstep192]

I figured I was asking for trouble when I thought about moving it. 

BUT - There’s only about 1/2 below the vang bracket, so there’s not enough room to raise the ring high enough to re-bed it. (Unless I’m missing something) 

I taped the boot and it still leaks a ton. I think the water is getting in through the bolt heads and migrating to the inside. 
 

There’s not a chance that I only need to seal the bolts, right? That would be way too easy. 

 

[Captain Jack Sparrow]

I figured I was asking for trouble when I thought about moving it. 

BUT - There’s only about 1/2 below the vang bracket, so there’s not enough room to raise the ring high enough to re-bed it. (Unless I’m missing something) 

I taped the boot and it still leaks a ton. I think the water is getting in through the bolt heads and migrating to the inside. 
 

There’s not a chance that I only need to seal the bolts, right? That would be way too easy. 

Normally rebedding that ring would be done with the rig out of the boat.

That boot doesn’t look like it’s in great shape.  You’d probably want to replace that, though some of the options also require taking the rig out to properly install around the mast. 
 

If you need a temporary fix for a while before the next time the rig is pulled, I’ve seen boats go full seasons in the Northeast with shrinkwrap tape wrapped around their mast collar arrangements. Seems to work better than some of the rubber or plastic boots out there. 

 

[CaptainAhab]

Why are you guys expecting things to go to shite when unscrewing a few 1/4-20 out of a mast? It's a modern good boat. Those would have been installed with one of the typical expensive non corrosion goops like Lanocote or Tefgel. It's not the 70's or 80's where only the smart people used grease...

 

[SloopJonB]

Why are you guys expecting things to go to shite when unscrewing a few 1/4-20 out of a mast?

Decades of experience.

Probably centuries in total.

 

[CaptainAhab]

Decades of experience.

Probably centuries in total.

So unless you personally screwed it in with lithium grease in the 70 or 80's or the several other goops you tried in the 90's and 2000's before going back to lithium grease or Duralac when it became available in the States, you assume some other stupid motherfucker(including J-Boats) used nothing and its permanently bonded to the mast.

 

[European Bloke]

So unless you personally screwed it in with lithium grease in the 70 or 80's or the several other goops you tried in the 90's and 2000's before going back to lithium grease or Duralac when it became available in the States, you assume some other stupid motherfucker(including J-Boats) used nothing and its permanently bonded to the mast.

It's not a bad assumption when considering the marine trade.

 

[basketcase]

So unless you personally screwed it in with lithium grease in the 70 or 80's or the several other goops you tried in the 90's and 2000's before going back to lithium grease or Duralac when it became available in the States, you assume some other stupid motherfucker(including J-Boats) used nothing and its permanently bonded to the mast.

Yes.

 

[The great unwashed]

In my experience, if I have 10 fasteners like that to unscrew, 6 will come out without an issue, two will eventually come out with a lot of swearing, heat, penetrating oil, and swearing.  One will bust in the mast, and the head of the last fastener will strip out.  I believe that this ratio is actually a natural law.

 

[DDW]

If you are moving it up, what does it really matter that the threads are f***ed when you are done? You are going to drill and tap new ones anyway 'cause you're moving it, right? Best case is actually every one of them snap off, you can then grind flush and not have to worry about filling the holes. Yes it will add stress if you move it up - but probably not much, very easy to figure out how much from the measurements. Say the E and P of the thing are 5' and 3'. 3' goes to 35". At the same vang tension, the downforce on the boom will change by 1/36, a bit less than 3%. You're not going to lose sleep over that. 

 

[SloopJonB]

So unless you personally screwed it in with lithium grease in the 70 or 80's or the several other goops you tried in the 90's and 2000's before going back to lithium grease or Duralac when it became available in the States, you assume some other stupid motherfucker(including J-Boats) used nothing and its permanently bonded to the mast.

Glad I could clear that up for you.

 

[IStream]

In my experience, if I have 10 fasteners like that to unscrew, 6 will come out without an issue, two will eventually come out with a lot of swearing, heat, penetrating oil, and swearing.  One will bust in the mast, and the head of the last fastener will strip out.  I believe that this ratio is actually a natural law.

And after the last one strips, you'll bust the tip off a carbide easy out in the fastener so you can't drill it out. This is the Way. 

 

[Quickstep192]

If you are moving it up, what does it really matter that the threads are f***ed when you are done? You are going to drill and tap new ones anyway 'cause you're moving it, right? Best case is actually every one of them snap off, you can then grind flush and not have to worry about filling the holes. Yes it will add stress if you move it up - but probably not much, very easy to figure out how much from the measurements. Say the E and P of the thing are 5' and 3'. 3' goes to 35". At the same vang tension, the downforce on the boom will change by 1/36, a bit less than 3%. You're not going to lose sleep over that. 

If I moved it up, I was going to move it by one increment if the bolt spacing so I could re-use six of the eight holes. 

 

[Quickstep192]

And after the last one strips, you'll bust the tip off a carbide easy out in the fastener so you can't drill it out. This is the Way. 

LOL! That’s good stuff right there!  

And naturally, they’re Phillips, so stripping is almost a certainty.