how to add sail area to an unstayed kat ketch

armorkite-650-boat-test-running-shot-credit-Chloe-Dubset.jpg


 

nota

Anarchist
Looks like middle mast position too,  does your hull have that built in?
no the sloop build has chain plates and stays ect not a flip between option one or the other as built

Why do you want more sail area?  Light airs?  Upwind?  Downwind?  Does your boat have a planing hull?
lite air and off wind boat is HEAVY 5200 LBS 

may plane in a cat 5 but I do NOT expect it to in normal use

 

nota

Anarchist
VWAP

one bit of kite teck I am thinking about is the air pressure tube battens they use

to have a square top that will roll up when depressured

but unsure how that would ''work'' in any but the very lightest winds

 

Black Jack

Super Anarchist
lite air and off wind boat is HEAVY 5200 LBS 

may plane in a cat 5 but I do NOT expect it to in normal use
That is a fun boat and 5200 lbs is not heavy for an older girl.  The swing keel makes her a good Florida cruiser with legs to visit the islands. Keep her original and enjoy her for what she is. For more fun to keep her and get a fast light sailing dinghy to sate your need for off wind sailing and planing.

 
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fufkin

Super Anarchist
Not sure if this helps, but I’ve noticed a couple of Nonsuch conversions from the original wishbone set up to a gaff rig.

Not something I would contemplate, nor am I sure if it actually increased the sail area, but there might be a possible application here...

 

nota

Anarchist
That is a fun boat and 5200 lbs is not heavy for an older girl.  The swing keel makes her a good Florida cruiser with legs to visit the islands. Keep her original and enjoy her for what she is. For more fun to keep her and get a fast light sailing dinghy to sate your need for off wind sailing and planing.
I have done the small boat bit flying Jr up to a raven when we lived at anchor

even franken boats like a 16 ft kat schooner as an every day dink

one idea is to go el-trick boat with a golfcart motor to get maneuvering power but short range

so need better very lite air sailing if we junk the dead diesel

so basically looking for add on sails or way to reuse older sails that I have from other boats

 

Herb2

New member
There are a couple ways to add sail area that I know work.  There was a beachcomber that went to conventional booms and fully battened sails, another added some short vertical roach battens to add sail area and still allowing the sail to roll up.  My own boat has a small square head main sail with more roach supported by battens that run at an angle to the mast and still roll up.  An idea I got from one of the smaller Hobie cats with a roller sail.

Also, don`t worry to much about balancing the center of effort,  The centerboard positioning  allows some variation in center of lateral resistance.  The hull has a full length shoe or keelson, which makes it forgiving of less than ideal balance.  The split rig gives you the option of trimming the mizzen to adjust the helm.  the boats will self steer on most headings.

When the yahoo beachcomber group was active there were lots of ideas to improve the boats. I have a lot of that material on my computer if you need any help.

Herb

 

Dex Sawash

Demi Anarchrist
2,575
801
NC USA
If you're going to put in "fuses" then make the halyard a stronger continuous loop, with the head of the sail made to a loop in it with a weaker link. That way, when it pops and the sails comes down, me bucko mate don't have to be climbin' no mast to get the halyard back.

Here's a Bolgeresque suggestion:

View attachment 482697

Adding the bowsprit is child's play. The "club spritsail" main and mizzen could be impossible to get to stand properly; I'm guessing that the geometry on the sprit/boom against the foot of the sail will hold them up. Adding a topping lift would give you more toy play with but make it a hassle going up and down. No math was done on this, I have no idea how much more sail are you'd be getting... well, a lot...

- DSK




I think Phil would have made that jib non-overlapping with a balanced club foot to make it self vanging/shorter sprit (unless you meant it to be a flat spin).

I suppose any sort of lug is right out due to the foremast being so far fwd?

 

ryley

Super Anarchist
5,516
666
Boston, MA
hey @nota my freedom 40 ck had been converted from wishbones. They went to standard booms to increase the sail area. worked well, masts handled the extra load with no problem. it did mean adding vangs as well which you could probably do for your main but not as easily for the mizzen.

 

nota

Anarchist
How does std boom increase sail?
was wondering that myself

If you're going to put in "fuses" then make the halyard a stronger continuous loop, with the head of the sail made to a loop in it with a weaker link. That way, when it pops and the sails comes down, me bucko mate don't have to be climbin' no mast to get the halyard back.
not me adding the ''fuses''

they are a part of the boat as it came to me with the bits in place

but as a shallow draft trailer boat the masts drop in place and can be removed

last time I used a bucket truck [cherrypicker] but with weights on the bottom [anchor chain]

I think a short gin pole will work to raise drop the sticks

 

Steam Flyer

Sophisticated Yet Humble
44,287
9,615
Eastern NC
...    ...

not me adding the ''fuses''

they are a part of the boat as it came to me with the bits in place

but as a shallow draft trailer boat the masts drop in place and can be removed

last time I used a bucket truck [cherrypicker] but with weights on the bottom [anchor chain]

I think a short gin pole will work to raise drop the sticks
Or an A-frame. A pole mast is easy to handle in some ways but difficult to drop into it's step.

About the "fuse" idea... I've seen it used on tacks of flying sails but not on halyards; you just put a loop of some softer, weaker line at that corner of the sail and it breaks before anything else. Easy to retrieve everything. I had the idea of making your halyard a continuous loop and having the "weak link" at the top corner instead because it would instantly take the pressure off. Might lead to some exciting shrimp trawls though.

- DSK

 

fastyacht

Super Anarchist
12,928
2,597
By dropping the clew to be even with the tack, and being able to support more roach.


A conventonal boom allows a pos4itive roach which could easily add 10 to 20 percent to the sail area.  The original sails are cut like a jb, with a slight hollw to the leach.


OK this is weird yeah I get that the originals had no roach but nothing about a wishbone precludes a roach. A wishbone sail can go right to the deck fwd and the clew can be the same place as a conventional so this makes no sense in general but I see the specifics in this case.

 

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