I hate Yacht brokers
- Thread starter 108
- Start date
Sail4beer
Starboard!
Fuck that! Post the contract where some broker is dumb enough to sign a purchase agreement with paid delivery guaranteed by the broker.
I smell a heap of bullshit here.
I would at least take the half from the broker...since he already owns the boat..
I smell a heap of bullshit here.
I would at least take the half from the broker...since he already owns the boat..
Starboard!!
Member
- 328
- 105
I am not a lawyer, but it sounds like Mr. @108 managed to somehow write a term into the contract that the seller, broker AND delivery captain all overlooked. Bravo!
... only problem is they have your money AND your boat, and the boat's in Canada so you can't even go get it yourself.
So unless the delivery captain's fee costs more than hiring a Canadian attorney and not seeing your boat until next summer... you're going to need to pay up. And I doubt the captain will take credit this time. Those marina fees are adding up too...
This is a good lesson in the fact that contracts don't mean shit if you don't have the property in-hand and/or the means to enforce that contract. If you'd wanted to ensure delivery as part of the deal, you needed to escrow the balance on delivery. Though that would have also drawn their attention to that contract term, wouldn't it...
... only problem is they have your money AND your boat, and the boat's in Canada so you can't even go get it yourself.
So unless the delivery captain's fee costs more than hiring a Canadian attorney and not seeing your boat until next summer... you're going to need to pay up. And I doubt the captain will take credit this time. Those marina fees are adding up too...
This is a good lesson in the fact that contracts don't mean shit if you don't have the property in-hand and/or the means to enforce that contract. If you'd wanted to ensure delivery as part of the deal, you needed to escrow the balance on delivery. Though that would have also drawn their attention to that contract term, wouldn't it...
Last edited by a moderator:
Sail4beer
Starboard!
^
From reading the OP, I'm pretty sure the seller has the money from the agreed upon sale, the broker has their commission, the new owner has the boat, and the delivery skipper is the only one currently in the lurch.
If the signed contract says that delivery to the US is part of the agreed upon price, my understanding is the delivery skipper should be knocking on the PO's door for payment. Since it ended up costing twice as much, maybe the nice thing to do would be to split the difference, but I don't see any obligation to do so. If the broker and PO didn't read it properly before they agreed to the sale terms, that is really on them. unless it was written in really small print... Or otherwise buried in the terms.
Why the delivery skipper didn't get a clear understanding on payment before they left the dock, who knows, but that doesn't seem like a good way to run a successful business.
All the same, congrats on the Olson 911. They are great boats.
If the signed contract says that delivery to the US is part of the agreed upon price, my understanding is the delivery skipper should be knocking on the PO's door for payment. Since it ended up costing twice as much, maybe the nice thing to do would be to split the difference, but I don't see any obligation to do so. If the broker and PO didn't read it properly before they agreed to the sale terms, that is really on them. unless it was written in really small print... Or otherwise buried in the terms.
Why the delivery skipper didn't get a clear understanding on payment before they left the dock, who knows, but that doesn't seem like a good way to run a successful business.
All the same, congrats on the Olson 911. They are great boats.
Last edited by a moderator:
Starboard!!
Member
- 328
- 105
@Cristoforo and @Slick470 Yeah my bad & I was just revising my post, I didn't realize this all happened in January and he already has the boat in-hand.Cristoforo said:
That said... I think that @108 is perhaps conflating two separate issues.
Unless the delivery captain was a party to original sales agreement, then whoever actually selected and made the delivery arrangements (i.e. hired him) is the one that he should seek payment from. If Mr @108 hired the guy, then he needs to pay up and seek compensation from the seller (good luck with that, per the sales agreement. But that's separate from the contract with the captain.
I wonder if what really happened was that the seller or broker got some friend to agree for a short delivery for cash, and then when it took longer and cost twice as much (b/c of getting turned around at the border, etc...) they told him that the buyer would pay the difference.
In any case, the delivery captain has learned a valuable lesson.
LotsO'Knots
Member
Should've used a buyer's broker to represent you. It's free to you (take our cut from the listing broker's) and their job is to check over contracts and protect your interests. Tough spot now with the delivery tab - unless it's a large enough amount to be worth litigating over, best of luck.
Last edited by a moderator:
randii
Member
As strange as this transaction is, the various governments may be left in the same lurch. Has the boat actually been imported or is it just 'visiting?' Is the duty paid?
An unpaid delivery captain might be sufficiently unhappy to make a call to the new state of residence and suggest a sales tax follow-up investigation.
Starboard!!
Member
- 328
- 105
I wouldn't ever want to make boat enemies. Too many opportunities for someone to drop by the dock and slip the lines or open a seacock.
mookiesurfs
Anarchist
If this was under English law, then responsibility would depend on how the purchase agreement was produced. OP states that 'I wrote in the purchase agreement that delivery across the border was included in my offer'.
Now, if he prepared the purchase agreement and sent it to the broker and PO for review and signing, then yes, responsibility would lie with the PO for paying the delivery skipper.
However, if (as would normally be the case, at least in my experience) the broker provided a purchase agreement to the OP, the OP added a clause about delivery and returned that to the broker without highlighting that he'd made the change then generally arbitration panel or a court would decide that the 'modified' agreement was void ans that original wording of the purchase agreement applied.
Obviously US / Canadian law is different, but I'd be surprised if the above didn't apply - certainly has in every country I've worked in.
So come on OP, tell us how you wrote the clause into the purchase agreement.
Now, if he prepared the purchase agreement and sent it to the broker and PO for review and signing, then yes, responsibility would lie with the PO for paying the delivery skipper.
However, if (as would normally be the case, at least in my experience) the broker provided a purchase agreement to the OP, the OP added a clause about delivery and returned that to the broker without highlighting that he'd made the change then generally arbitration panel or a court would decide that the 'modified' agreement was void ans that original wording of the purchase agreement applied.
Obviously US / Canadian law is different, but I'd be surprised if the above didn't apply - certainly has in every country I've worked in.
So come on OP, tell us how you wrote the clause into the purchase agreement.
Starboard!!
Member
- 328
- 105
@Jackett In either case though, the issue of the delivery captain getting stiffed is separate from the sales agreement.
That liability lies with whoever actually hired him. The OP has been conspicuously silent on this matter, which makes me think that both sides were in communication with the skipper.
In which case, the broker's offer to pay half seems reasonable.
That liability lies with whoever actually hired him. The OP has been conspicuously silent on this matter, which makes me think that both sides were in communication with the skipper.
In which case, the broker's offer to pay half seems reasonable.
Agreed - whoever hired the skipper pays him. My comments where in regards to whether on not the party who hired him then has any grounds on which to claim the cost back from the other party.
Pokey uh da LBC
Anarchist
The agreement between buyer and sell seems clear.
But, who engaged the delivery skipper? The person who engaged the skipper owes the skipper his fee. PERIOD.
After that person pays the skipper, that person, if not the seller can then go after the seller for reimbursement. But the buy sell agreement is separate from the delivery engagement agreement. The skipper is not bound by the buy sell agreement unless he was a part of it, which does not seem to be the case.
But, who engaged the delivery skipper? The person who engaged the skipper owes the skipper his fee. PERIOD.
After that person pays the skipper, that person, if not the seller can then go after the seller for reimbursement. But the buy sell agreement is separate from the delivery engagement agreement. The skipper is not bound by the buy sell agreement unless he was a part of it, which does not seem to be the case.
eastern motors
Anarchist
- 786
- 178
Do you actually practice law? You expect this guy to go pay a lawyer to fight over 2 day's captain time? Or you expect some person to give him free in person useful legal advice for a yacht purchase/contract? Both ideas are ridiculous.
My reading of the OP is that buyer and seller had a contact for a boat delivered to US. Giving money to the delivery skipper is charity. The broker offering to pay half tells me that he thinks he's liable (and he's right imo).
Last edited by a moderator:
Yes, I do, and I would not give out legal advice over the internet, free or otherwise. There are ethical as well as common sense reasons for this.
Purchase agreement should have delivery location in it. Is it the CAN or US location?
How much could 2 days of delivery skipper cost... Even the most expensive cannot be more than $500 per day.. The broker is not making a lot of money on this transaction. Take his offer and be happy.
How much could 2 days of delivery skipper cost... Even the most expensive cannot be more than $500 per day.. The broker is not making a lot of money on this transaction. Take his offer and be happy.
Last edited by a moderator:
