I still call Australia home

[LB 15]

He got very upset when I called him a sock in the BH cry wolf thread.

The way he blocks everyone he’s more like a sook than a sock.

I had a look and old mate TP seems to have only come on this tread to block people. And he appears to be very triggered. Perhaps he got very drunk and went down to the St Kilda coffee shops to talk shit with his fellow communists and maybe pull an old bird to root. But when he woke up in a dilapidated semi with rusty window frames and saw what he had porked he had to gnaw his arm off so he wouldn't wake it.
And now, quite rightly, he is awash with shame.

 

[ShortForBob]

Looks like it might be following the federal trend of the LNP imploding and Labor kinda just scraping a majority maybe not

Must have been some big swings in postals or something for the election to be called so early and yet we end up here

Here's a thought bubble. (or brain fart, depending on who's reading)
Some cities in the world or islands have taken up the challenge and made their own steps to reduce their carbon output.
If the world can't get in step, why cant individual levels of government go it alone?
Hopefully with subsidies from their central government.
If enough municipalities individually encourage and subsidise things like solar panals and electric cars and busses, would that make a significant dent?
Astypalia is in partnership with Volkswagen, they've replaced their entire island fleet of busses, taxi's ambulances and VW have subsidised the purchase of electric vehicles, provided the charging stations and built the solar farm (and possibly a wind generator) to power these things.
This is one tiny island but the Greek Gov is 100% behind it.

I believe their are cities all across europe and the UK doing the same.

 

[LB 15]

If you want to hear some commonsense solutions to climate change AND improving the quality of life for all Australians, listen to this...

Saul Griffith's electrifying mission - ABC Radio

Saul Griffith believes that the key to solving the climate crisis is to electrify everything, starting with our homes. The inventor, engineer and entrepreneur is spearheading this mission in his own postcode with Electrify 2515, which aims to have all household machines powered by renewable energy

www.abc.net.au

The reality is that that going into the NSW election, the Liberal/Nat Government had a well considered and thoughtful policy on climate change while the ALP had nothing. So the fuckwit virtue signaling, woke (hows that randy?) ALP voters don't really give a fuck about climate change, only hating on the Lib/Nats. Encoraging confused young men to cut their cocks off was a far bigger issue for them. But it seems not enough for them to have a majority in their own right. Since they did this in every other state election, it seems the pendulum is swinging away from them. The QLD ALP will be the first to fall. They are fucking everything they touch.

And lets never forget the moment when that attention seeking fat fuck Palaszczuk leapt out of her seat when Brisbane (the only city in contention) was announced as the 'winner'.
Bwahahahahahahahahahha. What a fuckwit she is.

 

[LB 15]

Hi Meli, enjoying your morning peak? It is little wonder with your lack of self control you have already had 3 lung busters today. Do you feel like the truly hopeless dumb cunt you are every time you fire one up?

 

[Fah Kiew Tu]

What's your point here though?
The answer to your question from a physical basis is "almost fuck all", but not zero.
The answer from a socialogical / philisophical / propaganda perspective is considerably more than that.

As a country we are rich enough and geographically positioned well enough to do something positive.

So why ask the retorical question - what point are you making?

The butterfly has to flap it's wings somewhere so that koch's snowflakes can continue to fall.

(And yeah I know how badly I'm mangling that metaphor)

I actually like to have actions that mean something, that's all.

This is just virtue-signalling and nothing more.

Waste of time and money.

And the point I was making is the one that you picked up without any difficulty and that the poster I was replying to wouldn't touch, which shows you have intellectual honesty and he/she doesn't.

I'm not actually opposed, but I do like to see what the outcome is going to be and, as you say, the difference it'll make is fuck all.

That would be fine if the cost was also fuck-all, but it's not, is it?

And therein lies the problem. I like living in and with 21C First World tech. You can't do that without reliable and abundant power supplies. Every fucking Green proposal reduces supply and reliability and the moment you actually want to BUILD something, there's always a reason why you can't do that here, or there, or in practice anywhere. Often I agree with the reason too, but - omelets & eggs.

Anyway it's been done to death and mostly I just ignore the anti-engineering fuckwits but occasionally I can't resist.

FKT

 

[tp#12]

Here's a thought bubble. (or brain fart, depending on who's reading)
Some cities in the world or islands have taken up the challenge and made their own steps to reduce their carbon output.
If the world can't get in step, why cant individual levels of government go it alone?
Hopefully with subsidies from their central government.
If enough municipalities individually encourage and subsidise things like solar panals and electric cars and busses, would that make a significant dent?
Astypalia is in partnership with Volkswagen, they've replaced their entire island fleet of busses, taxi's ambulances and VW have subsidised the purchase of electric vehicles, provided the charging stations and built the solar farm (and possibly a wind generator) to power these things.
This is one tiny island but the Greek Gov is 100% behind it.

I believe their are cities all across europe and the UK doing the same.

You're right, and they are to some extent.

Unfortunately, though, while it will make a difference, the biggest polluters globally are energy generation and transport for which we need National leadership/policy to make a real difference

Our World in Data - Emissions Data is 2016

Qld Labor are in a position to make more of a difference than most states and territories in Aus but thye're not

Vic Labor and SA Labor introduced a tax on EVs! They're hardly trying to incentivise EV take up.

The only mine that's been denied in Australia for environmental reasons is Clive Palmer's recent one and that wasn't really due to environmental issues. Labor hit Clive in the back pocket for collectively spending over $120m on anti-Labor political advertising over the last two federal elections

 

[Se7en]

I actually like to have actions that mean something, that's all.

This is just virtue-signalling and nothing more.

Waste of time and money.

And therein lies the problem. I like living in and with 21C First World tech. You can't do that without reliable and abundant power supplies. Every fucking Green proposal reduces supply and reliability and the moment you actually want to BUILD something, there's always a reason why you can't do that here, or there, or in practice anywhere. Often I agree with the reason too, but - omelets & eggs.

Yeah, it's mostly just virtue signalling, but is that such a bad thing?
I like our 21st century mobility. I did a 800km round trip at the weekend without thinking twice. My lifestyle depends on 21st century tech for both earning a living and consumption.
But - shops and individuals that try and make outdoor areas habitable with outdoor gas heaters and airconditioners running? Pumping 250 litres of water per person out of the aquifer in Alice Springs? Shipping container loads of plastic crap from china that is in landfill within weeks?

If we can get more people virtue signalling by reducing some of these behaviours, then it helps a tiny amount. If we can get the great prolateriate masses to get some part of their self esteem from showing how they cut consumption, then maybe we can also get consensus to fund some of the bigger projects. Tidal powered generation from port phillip bay for instance could match Tasmania's hydro. And they are both projects that can supply base load to augment solar etc.

Yep - driving a Tesla powered by burning coal in the Latrobe valley just makes you a wanker. But if a wanker with a Tesla goes a bit further and powers with renewables, it starts to make some difference. And if their kids see that they are hypocrites, and study to improve battery technology, or solar capture efficiency, or battery lifetime, then we improve.

Making a virtue of sunscreen and white skin has reduced the cancer rate. Doing the same for reducing energy consumption can't hurt. Walking the AAWT for your annual holiday has a much smaller footprint than jetting off to the Greek Islands.

 

[tp#12]

'Virtue signalling'

People who say this need to make caring people into bad people so they can justify their own selfishness to themselves

That's all that is happening here

This isn't directed towards you, Se7en

 

[Se7en]

'Virtue signalling'

People who say this need to make caring people into bad people so they can justify their own selfishness to themselves

Not really.
Some virtue signalling is pure hypocrisy.
Arnold Swartzenegger buying a nissan Volt? Please, we know he really drives a hummer.
The Labour party claiming to be green, but having no meaningful policy for power generation to replace coal and gas. That's hypocritical virtue signalling.
If Albanese rode a bike to work and refused overseas junkets, that would still be virtue signalling, but without the hypocrisy.

 

[tp#12]

So what if people are doing green things but aren't 100% Green yet? Are we moving towards the goals we need to?

Making up straw man arguments to deride people is just cheap shots from the sidelines and does little but make the person making the commentary feel superior.

I see it all the time. Have a look at some of the weird comments underneath anything Adam Bandt tweets. He would have to live in a straw hut with no electricity and walk everywhere before he could be considered not hypocritical by these people.

And what does that achieve? Nothing. He'd just be dismissed as some kind of weird hippy anyway.

In the meantime, we need real action on climate change and people are sooking about dumb straw man arguments instead of doing something positive themselves or supporting people who are trying to make a difference

 

[Fah Kiew Tu]

Not really.
Some virtue signalling is pure hypocrisy.
Arnold Swartzenegger buying a nissan Volt? Please, we know he really drives a hummer.
The Labour party claiming to be green, but having no meaningful policy for power generation to replace coal and gas. That's hypocritical virtue signalling.
If Albanese rode a bike to work and refused overseas junkets, that would still be virtue signalling, but without the hypocrisy.

Yep and why I hold them in contempt.

What you say in the earlier post, I agree with. But then I would. You know where I live. I already do most of the things the green wankers say. I just don't make a noise about it, virtue-signaling my low footprint lifestyle. And I've been living like this for decades.

We HAVE to solve the power supply issue. Have to. There are technologies that we can use now, but just because the tech is there doesn't mean it can be used due to political/philosophical objections. Which I'm also OK with, as long as the people objecting come up with something that actually WORKS and THEN get the fuck out of the way and allow it to be built.

But they can't and they don't. Meli is a perfect example. Pig ignorant, determined to stay that way, consuming power & resources she actively tries to destroy and thinking she's doing everyone around her a favour.

You'd never get that tidal power system approved because it'd change the ecology and disadvantage something. Hell, Tasmania would never be allowed to build its hydro system in the 21st Century. The Greens already want to remove dams from some of the rivers and reduce capacity.

Some days when I've read too much of this cant and bullshit I hope for a really prolonged power outage in Victoria. Something that lasts weeks or longer. It might take that level of fuck-up to concentrate peoples' minds on just how dependent most of the population is on reliable grid power. I've lived in 3rd World countries with rolling blackouts. It's one of the defining features of 3rd World countries.

Me - I've got green hydro power. And if that is looking dodgy for whatever reason, my boat has PV power and is big enough to live on for quite a while. Plus of course I have my own generator and a decent supply of diesel, simply because of where I live now.

FKT

 

[Goodvibes]

Well given the amount of time you spend in SA jail, you can play chopper.

You can at least buy a shirt for me.

https://allgreat-tee.com/7895311?fb..._vwSKUNIPCrkdwI&s=gildan-2400&c=Black&p=FRONT

 

[Se7en]

So what if people are doing green things but aren't 100% Green yet? Are we moving towards the goals we need to?

In the meantime, we need real action on climate change and people are sooking about dumb straw man arguments instead of doing something positive themselves or supporting people who are trying to make a difference

No one except you has gone down the reductio ad absurdum path of saying 100% green (suspect you can only achieve that by being dead).

Green slogans like "stop all coal tomorrow" are pointless virtue signallying without a realistic plan to achieve it.
I agree with FKT that this sort of virtue signalling is without value and should be condemmed, not rewarded with a vote. But I also thought it worth putting forward my view that some activities which are also virtue signalling can be worthwhile. I don't think Adam Bandt walking rather than driving makes any significant difference in of itself. But that sort of virtue signalling has value in my opinion, in growing awareness, setting examples etc.

Green polititians living off grid and lowering their consumption is admirable on a personal level. But pointless on a national level. Having practical and sustainable policies should be their measure, not whether they personally drive a leaf.

 

[Fah Kiew Tu]

Well it's starting to get cold now. My friends put their boat back in the water today after a long refit and are planning on heading north soon.

Myself - time to light the wood heater. I've a lot of firewood.

On cars frankly I'd buy a BEV tomorrow if they weren't so expensive. That's the only thing stopping me. There are resource issues around the batteries for sure, but the tech is proven, works and except for trips from Hobart to Sydney via Parkes and the like, eminently suitable. AND a lot less aggravation in general.

Provided you've green hydropower or a big PV array that is.

FKT

 

[tp#12]

No one except you has gone down the reductio ad absurdum path of saying 100% green (suspect you can only achieve that by being dead).

Green slogans like "stop all coal tomorrow" are pointless virtue signallying without a realistic plan to achieve it.
I agree with FKT that this sort of virtue signalling is without value and should be condemmed, not rewarded with a vote. But I also thought it worth putting forward my view that some activities which are also virtue signalling can be worthwhile. I don't think Adam Bandt walking rather than driving makes any significant difference in of itself. But that sort of virtue signalling has value in my opinion, in growing awareness, setting examples etc.

Green polititians living off grid and lowering their consumption is admirable on a personal level. But pointless on a national level. Having practical and sustainable policies should be their measure, not whether they personally drive a leaf.

You say reductio absurdium but that's all the straw man arguments are, finding some thing someone is doing that isn't green and dismissing the rest of their efforts.

The greens aren't saying stop all coal tomorrow, no one is - I've already explained this. And the Greens DO have a plan to match their policy; I bet none of you have read their policy platform yet are happy to comment on what policy they do or don't have.....

I posted a link to the biggest emitters above. The push to sheet home personal responsibility, like a bag for life or Bandt walking, is a smokescreen that detracts from the big policy issues to resolve our dependence on fossil fuels in transport and energy generation

Delay is the new deny. Undermining those who are trying to tackle the big problems because of some stupid little gotcha is immature and holding us back

Edited to add: I shouldn't be dismissive of bag for life etc as ONLY a smokescreen because it's true that raising awareness and changing attitudes is helped by these things.

 

[Se7en]

The greens aren't saying stop all coal tomorrow, no one is - I've already explained this. And the Greens DO have a plan to match their policy; I bet none of you have read their policy platform yet are happy to comment on what policy they do or don't have.....

I posted a link to the biggest emitters above. The push to sheet home personal responsibility, like a bag for life or Bandt walking, is a smokescreen that detracts from the big policy issues to resolve our dependence on fossil fuels in transport and energy generation

Delay is the new deny. Undermining those who are trying to tackle the big problems because of some stupid little gotcha is immature and holding us back

We are saying the same thing as far as what is important - actual strategies.
And both saying that the personal stuff is actually irrelevant for the politicians.

We disagree on whether the greens have a viable policy.
How much are you willing to put up for that bet btw?
(We can have a conversation about magical batteries and how you can't save $100million through stopping rebates on minimg that you are shutting down.)

Don't make the mistake of assuming that anyone who disagrees with you is ignorant.

 

[tp#12]

We are saying the same thing as far as what is important - actual strategies.
And both saying that the personal stuff is actually irrelevant for the politicians.

We disagree on whether the greens have a viable policy.
How much are you willing to put up for that bet btw?
(We can have a conversation about magical batteries and how you can't save $100million through stopping rebates on minimg that you are shutting down.)

Don't make the mistake of assuming that anyone who disagrees with you is ignorant.

You misrepresented their policy already. Don't pretend you've read it all of a sudden. Even in this reply you're showing me you don't know what's in it

 

[Se7en]

You misrepresented their policy already. Don't pretend you've read it all of a sudden. Even in this reply you're showing me you don't know what's in it

How much are you putting up for the bet?

 

[tp#12]

How much are you putting up for the bet?

Don't be an idiot

 

[Se7en]

Don't be an idiot

Now we add ad hominem.
Going for the full set of logical fallacies are you?