I will Take My Boat Now

[Brutal]

Sheikh - "OK Ernesto, you can have your boat, but promise me that you won't bring that fat Kiwi bastard behind us back next time. He creeps me out..."

Ernesto - "Deal!"

Sheikh - "Fantastic! I look forward to hosting your team once again for AC34."

Ernesto - "Great, Brad and I look forward to being back here in RAK..."

Sheikh - "What?!?!?! You just told me that you wouldn't bring his fat ass back here..."

Ernesto - "No I didn't"

:blink:

 

[MAHGUAH_SCALPS_PILGRIMS]

Maybe you think Ernie is asking for his boat back in this pic, but we see it this way:
Sheik: I will take my boat now.

Bertie: What?

Sheik: Did I stutter? You heard me. Give me the damn boat. Now.

Bertie: But it's not your boat.

Sheik: It is now.

We almost called it a SCOTW feature: The Sheik and his Bitch. Please note the chubby lapdog trying to keep up in the background...Jump in on this one.

 

[CCruiser]

Phreddo has a decidedly anti NYYC/American bent shall we say that seems to cloud his posts.

Being anti-Elison/Oracle and/or anti-NYYC is a LONG, LONG way from being anti-American, thank you very much. Instead, I'd call blind jingoism in the face of this extreme level of poor sportsmanship to be the "anti-American" position....it's diametrically opposed to everything many of us stand for.

Sorry if I took your statements to be more than you intended, and that you are only strongly anti NYYC and GGYC et al.

Let me see if I understand your final statement. Supporting an extreme level of poor sportsmanship is jingoistic and anti-American. It is as well, (supporting such poor sportsmanship), diametrically opposed to where many, which I assume includes yourself, stand for. (Apparently all who disagree with you are therefore anti-American and jingoistic by definition) Therefore the conclusion is inescapable that you do not support SNG, who have consistently demonstrated an extreme level of poor sportsmanship, (which continues to this day), as that would be jingoistic and anti-American, and diametrically opposed to where you stand.

Wow. "I know you are but what am I"...the last time I heard that defence was in 5th grade. My point has been made. On to something a little more interesting and important, like washing the cat and organizing my sock drawer....over and out.

Sorry had forgotten this thread - am looking for where I said "I know you are but what am I !" Maybe you would point it out to me. Yes, I believe you have made your point - you do not support people who consistently demonstrate "an extreme level of of poor sportsmanship," and to support such people is jingoistic and unamerican, (where is McCarthy when we really need him?) So we both agree - people involved in sail boat racing who engage in such conduct should be relieved of their position as trustee. See ya

 

[CCruiser]

Regarding other courts and how they might have ruled, it's been beaten to death elsewhere. I guess I'll just agree to disagree. The Swiss and I would argue that Elison used this as a tactic to get the racing out of the UAE due to some personal issues he had with racing there. That's a whole different discussion. The other issue is the DoG hemisphere debate. Again, my view, and I've heard it shared a lot, is that this is an archaic stipulation that was written at a time when the concept of racing in a temperate environment, ideal in fact, in the northern hemisphere in the "winter" was not imagined. For example, the founders of major league baseball stipulated no games can be played in the rain, it's unsafe. In 1850 or so, the idea of an enclosed dome was beyond their imagination. In Elison's world if he didn't like the city the domed baseball game was going to be in, he'd drag out this completely outdated rule and demand that the game be cancelled if it rained. It's absolute bullshit and most of the world knows it. The racing at RAK would have been fantastic.
Have I raced in RAK? No, not yet. But I've been there several times, the last time in November of this year, so about 7 weeks ago. I look forward to the opportunity.

The issue of the Nov-May ban was part of the "sail on your own bottom" limit - not because of the 'better sailing conditions'. some of the J-boats were fragile enough that even though they were towed across, had a rough crossing. So RAK's "sailing conditions" had no bearing on the INTENT or the LETTER of the law.

Now it is true that INTENT is an important component of legal analysis, BUT that ONLY comes into play if there is ambiguity in the law. So no, you would not be arrested for driving in Boston without being preceded by a man with a red lantern, because SUBSEQUENT LAWS have obsolesced that law just as subsequent revisions of the America's Cup Deed Of Gift have obsolesced prior versions. And in this case, the text of the deed is very clear.

Where you could go to INTENT is on the issue of "select courses". Becaue this refers to "courses" and not 'venues" and comes in the context of what the kind of Sea course is required for the Annual Regattae, there is ambiguity here. So in reading this Settlor's Intent WOULD apply. So we would go to prior versions of the Deed an contemporaneous writings to see if they illuminate this INTENT. And Lo and Behold it DOES. A prior version of the DoG speaks of sailing in the home waters of the Defender.

So where does this leave us WRT your own reasoning about RAK? Well it tells us that

• There is clear prohibition against RAK in the text of the Deed Of Gift, even though the INTENT of this prohibition is somewhat different in motivation
  
• There is CLEAR INTENT that the sort of venue shopping that SNG engaged in is AGAINST THE INTENT OF THE DoG
  

so once again, using YOUR OWN line of analysis, the Court PROPERLY RULED that there was no "Defender's Right" to select the venue. Never existed.

For the record, yes, the law does still appear on the books, it's STILL a law in Boston to drive without a lantern man in front and back. As does a law about not being allowed to serve your staff lobster more than 5 days a week. The point is simply that these laws are outdated but since state legislatures are lucky to address 10% of the current bills presented out of committee, they hardly have time to go back and purge such antiquated statues...and there are hundreds of them. Just like the hemisphere verbiage. But the primary point is that this never should have gone to court in the first place. RAK is a perfectly suitable venue. Ideal conditions, a new, spacious, state of the art facility, it just didn't suit Elison so he set his legal pitbulls on the case and they dug up this hemisphere issue.

At this point, if you don't see how a good portion of the world sees it that way, even if you disagree, well, so be it. I've tried. I'm done fucking around and talking in circles. It's a shame, because now if Elison ever does decide to race, ever, and wins, the whole world is going to just shrug their shoulders and say, "that's what great lawyers get ya". (Oh, and when I say, "the whole world", I'm including much of the US, not just "the French". For example, last summer a brutally anti-Elison full page editorial appeared in none other than "Roundel", the monthly color glossy journal of the BMWCCA, the largest BMW enthusiasts organization in the world, and obviously closely tied to Elison's title sponsor!). On the other hand, if he loses, and we can only pray that happens, it's a world party along the lines of "ding dong, the wicked witch is dead (again!)". Too bad for the guys on board Elison's Death Star, a bunch of great guys who are getting crushed in this mess.

Wow, you are making perfect EB sense - the deed is out of date, it should not be enforced as written, because you and EB, (oh and I forgot most of the World, including most of the US) have a different view. Sorry there are those of us that think the deed needs to be enforced as written. How jingoistic of us. Not to mention un-American. By the way most of the World, including most of the US never think about the Cup - they have other things to do.)

 

[bcopper]

Regarding other courts and how they might have ruled, it's been beaten to death elsewhere. I guess I'll just agree to disagree. The Swiss and I would argue that Elison used this as a tactic to get the racing out of the UAE due to some personal issues he had with racing there. That's a whole different discussion. The other issue is the DoG hemisphere debate. Again, my view, and I've heard it shared a lot, is that this is an archaic stipulation that was written at a time when the concept of racing in a temperate environment, ideal in fact, in the northern hemisphere in the "winter" was not imagined. For example, the founders of major league baseball stipulated no games can be played in the rain, it's unsafe. In 1850 or so, the idea of an enclosed dome was beyond their imagination. In Elison's world if he didn't like the city the domed baseball game was going to be in, he'd drag out this completely outdated rule and demand that the game be cancelled if it rained. It's absolute bullshit and most of the world knows it. The racing at RAK would have been fantastic.
Have I raced in RAK? No, not yet. But I've been there several times, the last time in November of this year, so about 7 weeks ago. I look forward to the opportunity.

The issue of the Nov-May ban was part of the "sail on your own bottom" limit - not because of the 'better sailing conditions'. some of the J-boats were fragile enough that even though they were towed across, had a rough crossing. So RAK's "sailing conditions" had no bearing on the INTENT or the LETTER of the law.

Now it is true that INTENT is an important component of legal analysis, BUT that ONLY comes into play if there is ambiguity in the law. So no, you would not be arrested for driving in Boston without being preceded by a man with a red lantern, because SUBSEQUENT LAWS have obsolesced that law just as subsequent revisions of the America's Cup Deed Of Gift have obsolesced prior versions. And in this case, the text of the deed is very clear.

Where you could go to INTENT is on the issue of "select courses". Becaue this refers to "courses" and not 'venues" and comes in the context of what the kind of Sea course is required for the Annual Regattae, there is ambiguity here. So in reading this Settlor's Intent WOULD apply. So we would go to prior versions of the Deed an contemporaneous writings to see if they illuminate this INTENT. And Lo and Behold it DOES. A prior version of the DoG speaks of sailing in the home waters of the Defender.

So where does this leave us WRT your own reasoning about RAK? Well it tells us that

• There is clear prohibition against RAK in the text of the Deed Of Gift, even though the INTENT of this prohibition is somewhat different in motivation
  
• There is CLEAR INTENT that the sort of venue shopping that SNG engaged in is AGAINST THE INTENT OF THE DoG
  

so once again, using YOUR OWN line of analysis, the Court PROPERLY RULED that there was no "Defender's Right" to select the venue. Never existed.

For the record, yes, the law does still appear on the books, it's STILL a law in Boston to drive without a lantern man in front and back. As does a law about not being allowed to serve your staff lobster more than 5 days a week. The point is simply that these laws are outdated but since state legislatures are lucky to address 10% of the current bills presented out of committee, they hardly have time to go back and purge such antiquated statues...and there are hundreds of them. Just like the hemisphere verbiage. But the primary point is that this never should have gone to court in the first place. RAK is a perfectly suitable venue. Ideal conditions, a new, spacious, state of the art facility, it just didn't suit Elison so he set his legal pitbulls on the case and they dug up this hemisphere issue.

At this point, if you don't see how a good portion of the world sees it that way, even if you disagree, well, so be it. I've tried. I'm done fucking around and talking in circles. It's a shame, because now if Elison ever does decide to race, ever, and wins, the whole world is going to just shrug their shoulders and say, "that's what great lawyers get ya". (Oh, and when I say, "the whole world", I'm including much of the US, not just "the French". For example, last summer a brutally anti-Elison full page editorial appeared in none other than "Roundel", the monthly color glossy journal of the BMWCCA, the largest BMW enthusiasts organization in the world, and obviously closely tied to Elison's title sponsor!). On the other hand, if he loses, and we can only pray that happens, it's a world party along the lines of "ding dong, the wicked witch is dead (again!)". Too bad for the guys on board Elison's Death Star, a bunch of great guys who are getting crushed in this mess.

Wow, you are making perfect EB sense - the deed is out of date, it should not be enforced as written, because you and EB, (oh and I forgot most of the World, including most of the US) have a different view. Sorry there are those of us that think the deed needs to be enforced as written. How jingoistic of us. Not to mention un-American. By the way most of the World, including most of the US never think about the Cup - they have other things to do.)

Wasn't it CF who said the deed seems to work just fine, based on this cup being the example ?

Based on JK's rulings I think he has a good point.

I guess Freedo missed that article, along with a few others .

 

[BalticBandit]

Ok Clean.... so WHO WON THE CAPTION CONTEST?

 

[cadee]

dunno where else to ask this, but WHERE is ALINGHI now?

Is it... still on a barge in RAK?

Is it... still on a barge somewhere else?

Is it... on a ship enroute to Valencia?

Is it... hung up somewhere while EB and the RAK negotiate its release?

the BOR camp has been very open about travel arrangements, and many of us are monitoring the OCEANLADY closely, watching ships coming through the Straits of Gibraltar, and with our ace reporters Malvarrosa Beach and others in Valencia keeping an on-site eye out, we will know all the BMWO arrival, unloading, etc. etc.

but the latest & last news on the Alinghi web site is dated 12/23, there is no mention of travel or movement (though as this reporter has not signed up as a "Friend of Alinghi" I may not know all the inside poop)... so,

WHERE IS ALINGHI NOW? anyone know anything?

 

[DC_US55]

Headed back to Villeneuve for a new "Swiss Made" logo?

 

[MAHGUAH_SCALPS_PILGRIMS]

MORE SWISS -RAK ISSUES

DID THAT SDT EVER ESCAPE--RAK CUSTODY ?

CSID Condemns Attack on Freedom of Religion in Switzerland

0 Comments | U.S. Newswire, Dec 1, 2009

To: FOREIGN EDITORS

Contact: Radwan Masmoudi, 1-202-251-3036, [email protected] democracy.org

WASHINGTON, Dec. 1 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ — The Center for the Study of Islam and Democracy notes with great concern the recent referendum in Switzerland, which, according to a majority of the votes,

will ban the construction of mosque minarets in that country.

This development is part of a recent disturbing trend in significant parts of Europe to restrict the religious freedom and self- expression of religious and ethnic minorities, notably of Muslims, who are full citizens of these European countries which otherwise pride themselves on being democratic and tolerant.

We note that the Swiss government to its credit was against this proposal but could not prevail against the incendiary and intolerant rhetoric of the extremist Swiss People’s Party (SVP).

It is equally noteworthy that the results of this referendum have been welcomed by leaders of other radical right-wing groups in Europe, such as Heinz-Christian Strache, leader of the radical-right Austrian Freedom Party, and Marine Le Pen, vice-president of France’s National Front, which points to the possibility of religious and political extremism spreading further in Europe

daily affirmations

 

[SimonN]

MSP

Have you been in hibernation? That item is dated 1 month ago and was discussed at the time. I know it's tough but try to keep up

 

[MAHGUAH_SCALPS_PILGRIMS]

MSP
Have you been in hibernation? That item is dated 1 month ago and was discussed at the time. I know it's tough but try to keep up

OH WOW SORRY

I JUST GOT THE JOT -SO POSTED OK THANKS --MSP

CHEERS

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL SA AC --

ITS BEEN A PLEASURE [ MOSTLY]

 

[CheeseBurger]

dunno where else to ask this, but WHERE is ALINGHI now?
Is it... still on a barge in RAK?

Is it... still on a barge somewhere else?

Is it... on a ship enroute to Valencia?

Is it... hung up somewhere while EB and the RAK negotiate its release?

the BOR camp has been very open about travel arrangements, and many of us are monitoring the OCEANLADY closely, watching ships coming through the Straits of Gibraltar, and with our ace reporters Malvarrosa Beach and others in Valencia keeping an on-site eye out, we will know all the BMWO arrival, unloading, etc. etc.

but the latest & last news on the Alinghi web site is dated 12/23, there is no mention of travel or movement (though as this reporter has not signed up as a "Friend of Alinghi" I may not know all the inside poop)... so,

WHERE IS ALINGHI NOW? anyone know anything?

Now we know where A5 was in the last 14 days.

Apparently the release from RAK was not such a problem as it was extensively speculated in this forum.

What EB paid / promised will remain a mistery.

Does RAK have a yacht club with an annual regatta?

 

[hhn92]

dunno where else to ask this, but WHERE is ALINGHI now?
Is it... still on a barge in RAK?

Is it... still on a barge somewhere else?

Is it... on a ship enroute to Valencia?

Is it... hung up somewhere while EB and the RAK negotiate its release?

the BOR camp has been very open about travel arrangements, and many of us are monitoring the OCEANLADY closely, watching ships coming through the Straits of Gibraltar, and with our ace reporters Malvarrosa Beach and others in Valencia keeping an on-site eye out, we will know all the BMWO arrival, unloading, etc. etc.

but the latest & last news on the Alinghi web site is dated 12/23, there is no mention of travel or movement (though as this reporter has not signed up as a "Friend of Alinghi" I may not know all the inside poop)... so,

WHERE IS ALINGHI NOW? anyone know anything?

Now we know where A5 was in the last 14 days.

Apparently the release from RAK was not such a problem as it was extensively speculated in this forum.

What EB paid / promised will remain a mistery.

Does RAK have a yacht club with an annual regatta?

As soon as the kids get their Opti's.............................................

 

[~Stingray~~]

:lol: Finally! A comment worth of the opening salvo to start this thread.

Sheik: "This is the location where we will bring you your 72 virgins after your suicide catameran explodes and destroys the Americans!"

EB: "Wait... Whut?"

Sorry to keep referring to this post, it just is funny.

Slightly more seriously, this just in from a friend in Valencia:

At 6:15pm, Alinghi 5 was still on its cargo ship, docked in the commercial harbor. There is no sign of activity at the Alinghi base either, besides some paint jobs going on inside the base. No crane for lifting the boat in sight either.

Strange! :blink:

 

[radtim]

dunno where else to ask this, but WHERE is ALINGHI now?
Is it... still on a barge in RAK?

Is it... still on a barge somewhere else?

Is it... on a ship enroute to Valencia?

Is it... hung up somewhere while EB and the RAK negotiate its release?

the BOR camp has been very open about travel arrangements, and many of us are monitoring the OCEANLADY closely, watching ships coming through the Straits of Gibraltar, and with our ace reporters Malvarrosa Beach and others in Valencia keeping an on-site eye out, we will know all the BMWO arrival, unloading, etc. etc.

but the latest & last news on the Alinghi web site is dated 12/23, there is no mention of travel or movement (though as this reporter has not signed up as a "Friend of Alinghi" I may not know all the inside poop)... so,

WHERE IS ALINGHI NOW? anyone know anything?

Now we know where A5 was in the last 14 days.

Apparently the release from RAK was not such a problem as it was extensively speculated in this forum.

What EB paid / promised will remain a mistery.

Does RAK have a yacht club with an annual regatta?

As soon as the kids get their Opti's.............................................

or the R/C boats...

 

[cblurton]

Now we know where A5 was in the last 14 days.

Apparently the release from RAK was not such a problem as it was extensively speculated in this forum.

What EB paid / promised will remain a mistery.

Does RAK have a yacht club with an annual regatta?

As soon as the kids get their Opti's.............................................

When they do, RAK has best not let SNG organize the youth program:

In fact most club Optimist regattas are at a more advanced state of organisation than what is supposed to be the premier event in sailing ...
From:

Another meeting to try to resolve America's Cup impasse

Seabreeze.com.au

 

[bcopper]

:lol: Finally! A comment worth of the opening salvo to start this thread.

Sheik: "This is the location where we will bring you your 72 virgins after your suicide catameran explodes and destroys the Americans!"

EB: "Wait... Whut?"

Sorry to keep referring to this post, it just is funny.

Slightly more seriously, this just in from a friend in Valencia:

At 6:15pm, Alinghi 5 was still on its cargo ship, docked in the commercial harbor. There is no sign of activity at the Alinghi base either, besides some paint jobs going on inside the base. No crane for lifting the boat in sight either.

Strange! :blink:

I find this surprising - no further updates on this ?

 

[PeterHuston]

:lol: Finally! A comment worth of the opening salvo to start this thread.

Sheik: "This is the location where we will bring you your 72 virgins after your suicide catameran explodes and destroys the Americans!"

EB: "Wait... Whut?"

Sorry to keep referring to this post, it just is funny.

Slightly more seriously, this just in from a friend in Valencia:

At 6:15pm, Alinghi 5 was still on its cargo ship, docked in the commercial harbor. There is no sign of activity at the Alinghi base either, besides some paint jobs going on inside the base. No crane for lifting the boat in sight either.

Strange! :blink:

Is there a problem with Swiss precision?

With time at such a premium, you'd think they'd get the boat off the ship as fast as possible.

It's like they didn't klnow it was going to show up.

 

[hhn92]

:lol: Finally! A comment worth of the opening salvo to start this thread.

Sheik: "This is the location where we will bring you your 72 virgins after your suicide catameran explodes and destroys the Americans!"

EB: "Wait... Whut?"

Sorry to keep referring to this post, it just is funny.

Slightly more seriously, this just in from a friend in Valencia:

At 6:15pm, Alinghi 5 was still on its cargo ship, docked in the commercial harbor. There is no sign of activity at the Alinghi base either, besides some paint jobs going on inside the base. No crane for lifting the boat in sight either.

Strange! :blink:

Is there a problem with Swiss precision?

With time at such a premium, you'd think they'd get the boat off the ship as fast as possible.

It's like they didn't klnow it was going to show up.

Maybe Rita has put the 'word' out..................................................

 

[~Stingray~~]

:lol: Finally! A comment worth of the opening salvo to start this thread.

Sheik: "This is the location where we will bring you your 72 virgins after your suicide catameran explodes and destroys the Americans!"

EB: "Wait... Whut?"

Sorry to keep referring to this post, it just is funny.

Slightly more seriously, this just in from a friend in Valencia:

At 6:15pm, Alinghi 5 was still on its cargo ship, docked in the commercial harbor. There is no sign of activity at the Alinghi base either, besides some paint jobs going on inside the base. No crane for lifting the boat in sight either.

Strange! :blink:

Is there a problem with Swiss precision?

With time at such a premium, you'd think they'd get the boat off the ship as fast as possible.

It's like they didn't know it was going to show up.

Maybe Rita has put the 'word' out..................................................

Well this Alinghi photographer got the word

http://www.alinghi.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=14058

And Moon_Unit posted that Alinghi is on vacation until Jan 5th; and the ship may have arrived sooner than expected; but if it remains just standing there without the port unloading the thing for another day - and taking up that slot - then it will get increasingly curious. We ~should~ see it start being unloaded by daylight, because otherwise something else may be holding it up.