IC37 by Melges, a new era of One Design racing in North America?

[Snowden]

However, sailing is considered too old for them and they don't care. We could use a couple Dinhoffers to goose the machine (https://nymag.com/nymetro/urban/recreation/features/5083/).

He sounds like a fun guy, but I don't think articles like that would be great for modernising the perception of the sport or increasing participation these days!

 

[European Bloke]

I heve never belonged to a yacht club that was open application like a pibliccswim club. I thoigjt oprn eas exceedingly rare.

Nyyc is an enigmacthouhh.  Until quite recently it didnt even have any of its own actual sailing facilities. Just "stations"

Everyone belonged to real uacht clubs too....

But yeah, so nyyc is very infliential but not a model of anything else.

I doubt thesr 37 will live on thr eay NY 30
, NY 40 NY50 and other wooden classes do--(even if only one left...)

Mr Yacht, Snags has got your password.

 

[HypnoToad]

Lot a talk about fairness in the class. Maybe so, but I'd like to see the results for each hull for each regatta sailed. There's a lot of demand to be "dealt" that #03 boat. Seems like it is always at the front.

 

[EastCoastHustle]

You’ve never heard that term?  It just means they don’t feel too quick in light air. It’s common with most big flat bottomed boats. Lots of wetted surface to drag around. 

They do feel slow in light air but not awful. There’s very little rocker so it is difficult to get the ass out of the water. I was actually referring to the upper wind ranges. It feels like it should “pop” earlier than it does. I haven’t helmed one yet so I’m not sure how much of that is the driver.

 

[EastCoastHustle]

I love the assumption NYYC members are the bank. The vast majority of members I know are working stiffs, white collar but swinging the proverbial hammer. Those I know don't have Tartan 10 money to toss around, much less IC37 coin.

While I get non-members presume NYYC folks all have deep pockets, the even funnier version exists internally. The club has been trying desperately to get younger members to field a 37. It's hard to drop the cash, commit to the logistics of managing crew and take the time to be competitive when you're grinding at a law firm/hustling in tech/moving street level pharmaceuticals. 

Another oddity is the nouveau riche don't give a shit about the sport. Your local Google/Facebook/Apple JR exec has the pockets to run any type of program they want. However, sailing is considered too old for them and they don't care. We could use a couple Dinhoffers to goose the machine (https://nymag.com/nymetro/urban/recreation/features/5083/).

I don't think the IC37 is going to save sailing as a sport. But, it's a solid move after the shitshow of the J70 class, which was our earnest promise for reinvigoration. ICs brings fair competition, team spirit, great venues and something for a solid local club to aspire to.  I look at Macatawa YC in Holland, MI, or North Star north of Detroit (Rock City!) and compare them to the the Irish contingent at the Invitational. With limited time in the boats, they'd be handicapped but it would be one for the books, which is how the Irish club set it up. Something to aspire to and a grand stage to give it your all.

The NAs are going to be a great event, but the NYYC Invitational is the event to look at  impact. Teams are taking 10+ days off work, chartering to get time on the boats and really getting after it. That's a solid representation. 

This is extremely true. NYYC makes it extremely affordable for young members to join, substantially cheaper than any of the other more prominent clubs and even a lot of local clubs. There are definitely plenty of big money guys at the club but there are thousands of members and plenty do not fall into that “rich” category.

With how easy they’ve made it for youth to join, I’m pretty surprised they haven’t made a club owned boat available to a youth or young adult team. Seems like an easy win for the class and the club. 

 

[jackolantern]

They do feel slow in light air but not awful. There’s very little rocker so it is difficult to get the ass out of the water. I was actually referring to the upper wind ranges. It feels like it should “pop” earlier than it does. I haven’t helmed one yet so I’m not sure how much of that is the driver.

Agree. The kites are too small and keep them from popping up IMO 

This is extremely true. NYYC makes it extremely affordable for young members to join, substantially cheaper than any of the other more prominent clubs and even a lot of local clubs. There are definitely plenty of big money guys at the club but there are thousands of members and plenty do not fall into that “rich” category.

With how easy they’ve made it for youth to join, I’m pretty surprised they haven’t made a club owned boat available to a youth or young adult team. Seems like an easy win for the class and the club. 

There was a five figure young member discount this year……so long as almost everyone else on the boat is also a NYYC young member.

 

[sailingbeme]

There is or was one for sale on yachtworld a while back. It was out of bayview.  Im to lazy to look, or care to see how it did in mac races or other regatta's. 

 

[Donkey687]

I was excited about the IC37 when announced and was hoping critical mass would build on the Great Lakes. Having one jib and one spinnaker is really appealing to me especially since they were the same sail design for everyone. I was crewing on a J/111 and thought it was silly that you had 2-3 jibs and 2-3 spinnakers of roughly the same size.  You double the sail costs for everyone to go a couple percent faster in broader conditions. Why didn't the J/111 go with the J/105 rules of 1 jib and 1 spinnaker? However, critical mass for the IC37 didn't develop on the Great Lakes and the couple boats that were on the lakes had an entirely different set of sails for offshore sailing so I went ahead and bought the J/111 as I would rather be racing one design in the Mackinac races than handicap.  Maybe one day I will get some buddies together to charter a IC37 for a NYYC event, but it may not be an easy boat to step into without a lot of practice.  With their big mains and runners, it does seem like a boat that requires time in the boat to get it dialed in. Chartering costs aren't cheap but if you factor in everything, chartering on a per race basis is cheaper than owning. I think it is a good model for certain people and applaud NYYC efforts in putting it on. I just think if the boat were about 3 feet shorter, costs and loads and crew requirements would be 30% less making it somewhat more accessible and certainly easier to sail for smaller sailors (i.e. females and youth) and just as much fun. Nine crew is a lot.

 

[JM1366]

I don't think the IC37 is going to save sailing as a sport. But, it's a solid move after the shitshow of the J70 class, which was our earnest promise for reinvigoration. ICs brings fair competition, team spirit, great venues and something for a solid local club to aspire to. 

Wait, what's the issue with the J/70 class? Forgive me for being naive, I've never been to any of the big J/70 regattas. I do crew on a local boat, and the only negative thing I have to say about the J/70 is that it could really do without those two winches.

Seems like they got most things right. Sails aren't too crazy expensive for them, the sails seem to last reasonably well, and the boat is physically pretty manageable. Certainly a hell of a lot easier on a person's body than any of the scow classes, and I think a lot better than the J/80 was in that regard.

I mean, a jib is like $1800 for a J/70, and they don't seem particularly short-lived compared to any other jibs. 

 

[JM1366]

I was excited about the IC37 when announced and was hoping critical mass would build on the Great Lakes. Having one jib and one spinnaker is really appealing to me especially since they were the same sail design for everyone. I was crewing on a J/111 and thought it was silly that you had 2-3 jibs and 2-3 spinnakers of roughly the same size.  You double the sail costs for everyone to go a couple percent faster in broader conditions. Why didn't the J/111 go with the J/105 rules of 1 jib and 1 spinnaker? However, critical mass for the IC37 didn't develop on the Great Lakes and the couple boats that were on the lakes had an entirely different set of sails for offshore sailing so I went ahead and bought the J/111 as I would rather be racing one design in the Mackinac races than handicap.  Maybe one day I will get some buddies together to charter a IC37 for a NYYC event, but it may not be an easy boat to step into without a lot of practice.  With their big mains and runners, it does seem like a boat that requires time in the boat to get it dialed in. Chartering costs aren't cheap but if you factor in everything, chartering on a per race basis is cheaper than owning. I think it is a good model for certain people and applaud NYYC efforts in putting it on. I just think if the boat were about 3 feet shorter, costs and loads and crew requirements would be 30% less making it somewhat more accessible and certainly easier to sail for smaller sailors (i.e. females and youth) and just as much fun. Nine crew is a lot.

I kind of agree on the size thing. Things under 35 feet always seem a lot more manageable in terms of cost than things over 35 feet. The crew is the big killer though. Even if you make enough that affording new sails every race isn't a problem, organizing nine people's lives is a lot of work. Hell, even maintaining a crew of five other people is a lot of work. I can definitely see the crew requirement putting a lot of people off. 

Also, and this is just my opinion, the cost of sails is one of the biggest determining factors for how easy it is to get new and younger people into a class. An E-scow / J/70 is still pretty manageable, and an upper-middle-class person can afford a new jib every year and a new main every couple years without feeling like they're blowing too much of their income on sails. This is doubly true with used sails available.

When the only option to be even remotely competitive is to spend $30,000 on sails every year... that pushes a lot of people away. I know the boat is expensive (I heard something like $300k), but the higher the costs the smaller the pool of potential candidates is. 

 

[jackolantern]

Wait, what's the issue with the J/70 class?

The fact that many many people will spend thousands of dollars a day on crew to race on a 21 foot boat.

It’s a 21 foot boat. 21 feet. If you need a professional to race a 21 foot boat, you’re losing the plot somewhere.

 

[fastyacht]

I see a LOT of people spending $30,000 a year on diesel and billfish gear...just saying.

 

[JohnMB]

The fact that many many people will spend thousands of dollars a day on crew to race on a 21 foot boat.

It’s a 21 foot boat. 21 feet. If you need a professional to race a 21 foot boat, you’re losing the plot somewhere.

There are also plenty that don't,and  it's a really fun boat to sail.

I love my J70, I like racing it, I like just going out to sail it with friends or family. I don't pay crew, and I don't have an issue with those that do.

Maybe having the pros there is not to everyone's tastes but I don't think it makes it a shitshow.

 

[JM1366]

The fact that many many people will spend thousands of dollars a day on crew to race on a 21 foot boat.

It’s a 21 foot boat. 21 feet. If you need a professional to race a 21 foot boat, you’re losing the plot somewhere.

I guess I never realized that you were allowed to do that in the J/70 fleet. Mind you, any rules against doing so are pretty easy to circumvent. "I pay him to wax the boat" or whatever. 

 

[dogwatch]

He'd be classed as a group 3 professional then. https://www.sailing.org/news/1018.php

(ii) managing, training, practicing, tuning, testing, maintaining or
otherwise preparing a boat, its crew, sails or equipment for
racing, and then competed on that boat, or in a team
competition, in a boat of the same team; 

 

[sunseeker]

I see a LOT of people spending $30,000 a year on diesel and billfish gear...just saying.

$30k a year on a fish killer is a deal as compared to a few of the J70 budgets. $30k won’t even cover a week long regatta for some boats.

 

[Somebody Else]

$30k a year on a fish killer is a deal as compared to a few of the J70 budgets. $30k won’t even cover a week long regatta for some boats.

For each of those $30k + J/70 campaigns there are hundredfold amateur teams, probably having more fun.

 

[sunseeker]

For each of those $30k + J/70 campaigns there are hundredfold amateur teams, probably having more fun.

If talking about the class as a whole, your math is sort of close, but if you look at the really high end regattas, like a worlds, there’s probably 30 boats paying crew significant amounts, so it’s not a hundred fold difference. 

Nothing wrong with paying people to sail, it’s just a different game. 
 

Classes like scows are way more fun than a J70, and no one pays anyone to sail (or at least it’s not obvious). 

 

[sunseeker]

Back to the title of this thread, no, the IC 37 is not a new era in sailing. The North American builder retired and closed up shop. Haven’t heard of anyone acquiring those molds and building more boats. Is the builder in the UK (or was it some place in Europe) built any other boats?

sure it provides fun for those at NYYC who want to charter for a season, and the invitational is fun for those who compete, but by any other measure the IC 37 failed as a class. That said, I’d be pretty sure NYYC didn’t give a shit about building a class, why would they care? If you aren’t a member, basically you are pond scum is the way most NYYC members view the rest of the sailing community. I do rather enjoy drinks at their facility though, the Underhill’s are wonderful hosts.

The Canada’s Cup tried to hitch a ride with the IC 37, but that looks like a failed experiment. Class growth could have come from the Great Lakes as a result, but that looks dead now.

 

[fastyacht]

That is an embarrassing social consciousness post.